1900s Silver Figural Baseball Music Box

[vintagesportscollector]

Carlton first noted this box in his 2006 National write up:

http://www.sportsantiques101.com/06natpage3.htm

Search "Music Box" in Hunts completed auctions and you will see a few (or the same one sold multiple times). Hunts attributed it to the 1920s. SCP and Lengendary implied or stated Turn of Century.

Seems the key is knowing it is a Fred Zimbalist piece, which would put it in the 40s/50s. In the absence of that knowledge, any earlier guess on age seems understandable. However....this group (Jim in particular) could immediatelly date this to the 40s while SCP and Legendary couldn't do some basic homework? Is it possible not all these are Zimbalist? the Ebay one doesn't have a sticker, so how did that seller know it was Zimbalist, or are they just assuming? (the Thorens pamphlet does look 40s/50s).

Either way absolutely gorgeous piece, (wish I saw it on ebay), but seems $3-5K is more in line than $15-30K.

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by vintagesportscollector

Carlton first noted this box in his 2006 National write up:

http://www.sportsantiques101.com/06natpage3.htm

Search "Music Box" in Hunts completed auctions and you will see a few (or the same one sold multiple times). Hunts attributed it to the 1920s. SCP and Lengendary implied or stated Turn of Century.

Seems the key is knowing it is a Fred Zimbalist piece, which would put it in the 40s/50s. In the absence of that knowledge, any earlier guess on age seems understandable. However....this group (Jim in particular) could immediatelly date this to the 40s while SCP and Legendary couldn't do some basic homework? Is it possible not all these are Zimbalist? the Ebay one doesn't have a sticker, so how did that seller know it was Zimbalist, or are they just assuming? (the Thorens pamphlet does look 40s/50s).

Either way absolutely gorgeous piece, (wish I saw it on ebay), but seems $3-5K is more in line than $15-30K.

Joe, without trying to sound defensive I don't think that you can discount the last three prices of this exact same trophy? The last three have have all been north of $15k and for you to say that $3k - $5k is more in line does not take into account supply and demand and the fact that we now have three data points (excluding the one I bought on eBay because the seller badly miscategorized the piece) that say you are wrong. As with all memorabilia they have their ebbs and flows and this is no different but the prices are definitely trending in the $15k range.

You can go back and take a look at some of the past trophies in REA or any other AH and see that Spalding trophies or the very nice looking trophies that the prices have been trending upwards, IF you can find them nowadays. While I do not dispute your knowledge, I do dispute your value of these pieces.

[vintagesportscollector]

Fair points Bob, and I wouldn't dispute anything that you have said. We all value things differently. For me the knowledge that it is from the 40's/50s, and not much earlier (as the previous three auctions claimed), was paramount to my opinion. You can say I am wrong - and considering I knew nothing of this Box before this thread, chances are I am wrong - every piece of memorablia has different opinions on value.

We can't dispute we have learned more about this piece in this thread, than previously known, which should only serve to better help everyone value. There are now several data points on this piece, but this is what seems to be the trend for me...when it was known to be a Zimbalist piece from the 40s, it goes cheaper than when purported to be much earlier.

As I stated its absoutely stunning, and again congrats!! Either way I think you got a greal deal. You should feel excited..I would be too.

[murphusa]

The other way you can date it is by the music box maker as they were sold and or merged a few times in their 130 year old history.

as such their name changed over the years on the paperwork for their music devices while always being know by the founders name

Their turntables are fantastic

On the price of the item. Bob I would be patting myself on the back knowing that I had only paid what you did and not the $15,000 or upwards based on a bad description.

The non baseball boxes from this maker sell now for $750 to $1250 depending on design. Their boxes of the
Taj are fabulous and demand a good price but no near $15,000

[perezfan]

The only remaining fact possibly worth noting is that there are 2 styles of this great piece. The far rarer (and apparently more expensive) of the two has period baseball players etched into 3 sides of the "Baseball" portion.

Very attractive engraving, though I am not sure if it was manufactured this way, or if the former owner had the etching professionally done (after the initial sale). Many period silver items such as Walking Canes, Pitchers and Trophies had professional engraving added at a later date...

That said, here are the two examples, from Legendary's Site...

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...ntoryid=167006

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...ntoryid=117953


Lastly, it appears there is a FOOTBALL version. Unfortunately Legendary has no image of it. But the description suggests that it might have been produced by the same company, in identical/matching fashion...

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDeta...ventoryid=6197

[murphusa]

here is the football one. Hunts sold one a few years ago for $1,800. As you can see the player is similar to the baseball figure on the one Mark posted. The other difference is there are two sizes on is a 9" and one an 11" model on the baseball.

[bobfreedman]

Wow, what a great piece as well