The way auctions close?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by buymycards

One sentiment has been, the auctions ending altogether, all at once and very late, tend to help the whales with lots of money more than the other auctions ending lot by lot. However, what if the bidders were able to get extended payment terms to bid on more? Would that alleviate some of the issue?

Hi Leon,
One of your questions seems to have been overlooked by the previous posters. If I understand your question correctly, you are wondering if more bids would be generated if the winner did not have to pay right away. For instance, before the auction begins, a bidder could request a line of credit, and if the prices start to get high, more bids may be generated if the winners had more time to pay for the item. I think a lot of people might like that idea, although I wonder how it would affect the time in which consigners get paid.

Rick

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?



So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?





.

In the case where there is a huge item (E105 Cobb for example ) up for auction, I could see myself taking advantage of a payment plan. But the question is: Does the AH take the risk and pay the consignor immediately after auction close, or does the consignor have to take the risk and wait for full payment?

[barrysloate]

Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.

This is silly. Most of the time between 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM is dead time. Nobody seems to want to tackle this, but with so many auctions taking place these days, how many times can bidders be counted on to stay up all night? And bidders who have to eventually go to sleep are bidders who aren't bidding, so the auction house is leaving some amount of money on the table. You ideally want everyone to get all their bids in before they quit, not go to sleep because they can't stay up any longer. How many times to we hear of bidders willing to go another increment, but they fell asleep and when they awoke the auction already ended. It's a flawed system.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.

I don't think a lot of sniping occurs that is based on 1 person's knowledge and the lack of others, so I have a hard time understanding why the wait, other than when your limit is reached on a specific item you want to spread your money elsewhere. So what's the problem if that limit is reached sooner? Earlier bidding is better for the AH and consignor.

How about a BP discount/penalty? Up to the last day of the auction, the BP is the AH standard BP. The last day of the auction, BP+. When it gets into extended bidding, BP++. Determining exact amounts is left as an exercise for the student.

(another non-perfect solution)

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

I personally like the idea, Leon. There were at least two cards that I would have kept going on last night if I was able to extend the pay period. That said, I'd trust myself to put the money away over the extended period (for me, it's more of avoiding the wife's wrath in spending so much all at once ). I would worry about everyone making good on their bids. People tend to be optimistic about finances when you can push it out 3-6 months. I could see AH's running into situations where the winning bidder just can't come up with the funds, even with the extended time period.

Not sure how you'd screen folks to qualify...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I personally like the idea, Leon. There were at least two cards that I would have kept going on last night if I was able to extend the pay period. That said, I'd trust myself to put the money away over the extended period (for me, it's more of avoiding the wife's wrath in spending so much all at once ). I would worry about everyone making good on their bids. People tend to be optimistic about finances when you can push it out 3-6 months. I could see AH's running into situations where the winning bidder just can't come up with the funds, even with the extended time period.

Not sure how you'd screen folks to qualify...

Maybe 25% down, terms on the rest....good ole credit and/or reference check. Only very good to excellent risks needs apply. Be responsible (right?). Someone once told me that our credit score is akin to an adult financial report card. I never forgot that one.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

What's the difference between selling cards you don't own and buying cards you can't afford. This is beginning to sound like the "American" way, Washington style. I will be paying for my next B & L Auction winnings with my 2017 tax refund, I promise, provided the national debt doesn't double by then and Social Security remains solvent. And if I break my hip, the deal is off.

Please ship my items by registered mail and fully insured as soon as possible using your buyer's premium and don't forget to send tracking numbers.

Sincerely Yours,

N. "Sol" Vent

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

what's the difference between selling cards you don't own and buying cards you can't afford. This is beginning to sound like the "american" way, washington style. I will be paying for my next b & l auction winnings with my 2017 tax refund, i promise, provided the national debt doesn't double by then and social security remains solvent. And if i break my hip, the deal is off.

Please ship my items by registered mail and fully insured as soon as possible using your buyer's premium and don't forget to send tracking numbers.

Sincerely yours,

n. "sol" vent

"...and you kids get off my lawn!!!! :d

[frohme]

Originally Posted by Leon

[...]

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

Heritage offered this for a while (not sure if they still do). You could be pre-approved and get an extended 4-month payment period, same as cash If I recall (though recollection ain't what it was). I think you had to pay at least 1/4 of the total each month, but don't know for sure as I never used it.

Found the link. http://www.ha.com/c/ref/extended-payment-terms.zx

--
Mike

[Golfcollector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Somebody needs to come up with a system that forces bidders to place bids early. It isn't as if it takes until 6:00 AM for all the bids to be placed and processed, it's really that bidders feel no pressure to bid before the wee hours of the morning. And they do wait. Instead of placing their bids early, they try to wait until the last possible minute, hoping to catch a competitor sleeping, or to get a last bid in before the auction finally closes.

Green Jacket auctions which specialized in golf memorabilia has a giveaway that usually rewards 10-15 bidders with winning a free prize.

You get one entry for any bid made on any lot for a period of two days which is early in the auction.

This obviously drives the price up quickly on some lots, but it also cuts out the last minute bidding on stuff. With a chance to win two masters practice round tickets or even just a Masters Flag, you would be amazed at how many bids take place.

It seems to work well for them... and I personally would like to see some other auction houses try something similar...I am sure any of the larger ones could easily pony up a couple grand in material as giveaways...particularly with the fees they are charging on both ends.

[Steve D]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

There have been several times where I've wished I could do exactly that!!!

A six-month maximum window seems to me to be a good time frame.

Steve

[MartyFromCANADA]

They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me

[RGold]

Originally Posted by MartyFromCANADA

They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me

Common sense answers like that do not belong on this forum!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by MartyFromCANADA

They should end the auctions in the afternoon on the East coast. Let extended bidding rules begin at around 4 or 5pm. After midnight, bidding should only continue on active lots. *I was up until 1:30 EST last night, winning three lots, woke up and was outbid on all. Poor me

As tongue in cheek as this statement is, the reality is there is no such thing as an East Coast auction. There are MANY west coast auctions however.

[Bosox Blair]

Well, I have lived on the Atlantic coast and the Pacific coast, so I do understand where all the sentiments are coming from.

Putting all that aside, I'm fine with how all the various auctions work. As long as the rules are made clear to everyone from the get-go, it is fair game.

People always assume is is easy (or easier) for West coast people to stay up until very late hours to place late bids. It isn't. And obviously East coast people are free to sleep between 10PM and 3AM and then get up with the benefit of 5 hours sleep to rejoin the late bidding. Why is that presumptively impossible? Frankly I don't think that is any harder than forcing yourself to stay up until an unusually late hour with no sleep on the West coast.

My point - if you know the rules, you have no excuse...work with the rules.

(Not to mention the ability to leave max bids, but I leave that out of the piece for now since I'm just as averse to it as most others...even though I trust Al...)

Cheers,
Blair

[parker1b2]

I am mostly a memorabilia and autograph collector, but as someone who just in the past 2 years joined a few auction sites that advertise here (before that mostly ebay, dealers and shows) I can say I hate auctions that end in the early morning.
I am still mad at an item I lost at Lelands last year. Was my first time bidding with them. I was bidding on something and was winning, below my max bid also, and stayed up to about 3am. It was way too late for me, and I figured since there was no action on the lot for like two hours, I would win it and went to bed. Woke up in the morning and sure enough I lost it. I probably would have bid a little higher, but I was a sleep. Still bugs me.

[Griffins]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

As tongue in cheek as this statement is, the reality is there is no such thing as an East Coast auction. There are MANY west coast auctions however.

Wrong. LOTG ended at about 6am eastern. Goodwin has ended that late (early) as well. At the age most of us are you're much more likely to be up at 6am on the east coast than I am to be up at 3am on the west coast.

[kkkkandp]

I like the item-by-item closing approach and think Dave Schrader's way of doing it is pretty decent. Every lot has a fixed closing time so it's either bid or get out. I think perhaps the 30 seconds between lots might be a tad short especially if you are bidding on a couple of lots that close one after the other and might need some more time to rethink your strategy.

Letting auctions run until 6:00 AM (or whatever) the next day just seems crazy to me.

[rats60]

I would close the auction lot by lot. I would also get rid of the 30 minute or 15 minute reset. 5 minutes is enough. In my case, I would place more bids with more collector friendly rules. I'm not going to stay up all night to bid on a card.

As is, I'll just place a bid if I really want something and if I get out bid in the middle of the night , I don't win, the auction house leaves money on the table. There was a card Sat night that I was interested in, but I chose to not even bid because of the rules. The card sat at the same price for a long time, but after I went to bed, someone came in and won the lot.

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Wrong. LOTG ended at about 6am eastern. Goodwin has ended that late (early) as well. At the age most of us are you're much more likely to be up at 6am on the east coast than I am to be up at 3am on the west coast.

Completely agree. I am up most mornings working on my computer at 6 AM. The last time I was up at 3 AM I obviously had no impulse control and therefore had no business making financial decisions.

[Zach Wheat]

Originally Posted by Leon

Thank God for you Rick!! Everyone overlooked a potential (heck if I know for sure) solution to the problem. If anyone would care to also answer I would love to hear some views. All opinions are welcome. I am curious as a collector, resale buyer, seller, consignor, auctioneer.....need I keep going?

So if you could pay for winnings over 3-6 or more mos., would that be viable and level the playing field any?


.

Approving a line of credit prior to the auction start and potential having extended time to pay for things wouldn't make a difference to me. I would not use it.

Z Wheat