March Autograph Pickups...

[David Atkatz]

Except for the fact that the document is not in Hancock's hand.

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Except for the fact that the document is not in Hancock's hand.

David these bills of lading have long been accepted to be in John Hancock's hand...Is there something about this that you can share with us that we dont know?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

David these bills of lading have long been accepted to be in John Hancock's hand...Is there something about this that you can share with us that we dont know?

Sure--it couldn't be simpler. Look at the signature at the bottom, the signature of the ship's master, James Scott. Look at the "James." Notice it's exactly the same as the written "James Scott" in the third line--which is supposedly in Hancocks hand. Notice the "J" in the Scott signature at the bottom, the "J" in the written "James Scott" in the third line, and the "J" in the written "John Hancock." All identical.
Conclusion: The entire document was written by James Scott.

[7nohitter]

I agree with David and thought the same thing to myself...clearly all three J's are written by the same person

[jgmp123]

Outside of the "J"...take a look at the "O" in John and the "O" in Scott...identical, even down to the flick and carry to the next letter...

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Sure--it couldn't be simpler. Look at the signature at the bottom, the signature of the ship's master, James Scott. Look at the "James." Notice it's exactly the same as the written "James Scott" in the third line--which is supposedly in Hancocks hand. Notice the "J" in the Scott signature at the bottom, the "J" in the written "James Scott" in the third line, and the "J" in the written "John Hancock." All identical.
Conclusion: The entire document was written by James Scott.

Or could entire document been written by Hancock? Some of the lettering is in Hancocks style writing. Either the Whole item was written by James Scott or Hancock. I agree same person wrote whole document. This item almost identical to several I have seen at reputable auction houses and with PSA letters. Never seen one advertised as in someones hand other than Hancocks.

[packs]

The way the document is filled out it seems to me that Scott is the author and signer. His name appears at the bottom. It would be unusual for Hancock to sign his name at the top and Scott's name at the bottom. To me it is Scott filling in Hancock's name and signing his own.

Just an opinion of course.

[w7imel]

Im just curious myself. The writhing appears same as all the ones I have seen at past major auction house autions that claim Hancock penned these in His hand. No one alive from this time period to confirm either way I guessing.

[Lordstan]

Plus the flair beneath the Scott name would likely indicate that as a signature as opposed to just the name of someone written in script by someone else.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

Or could entire document been written by Hancock? Some of the lettering is in Hancocks style writing. Either the Whole item was written by James Scott or Hancock. I agree same person wrote whole document. This item almost identical to several I have seen at reputable auction houses and with PSA letters. Never seen one advertised as in someones hand other than Hancocks.

Because PSA is, as usual, dead wrong (And their examiner is simply not very bright.)
Read the document, which is a bill of lading. It clearly states that it is signed by th ship's master, James Scott. So, that is Scott's signature at the botttom. But, looking at the signature, and comparing with the rest of the writing, we see the entire document was written by the signer. James Scott.

[w7imel]

Ok I guess here is my question. I have seen dozens of these online and they all have the same looking "John Hancock" in upper right corner. So your going to tell me that every one of them knew how to fill out a cargo slip the same way Hancock did? I dont think so. Most of this sailors probably couldn't read or write let alone fill out cargo manifests in such elegant writing. From what I have read Hancock was a smuggler of sorts. Hancock wrote these for them. Compare this document to any Hancock letter and letter formations the same. I can Post pictures of these as well. Did "john Scott" fill this one out as well?

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

Ok I guess here is my question. I have seen dozens of these online and they all have the same looking "John Hancock" in upper right corner. So your going to tell me that every one of them knew how to fill out a cargo slip the same way Hancock did? I dont think so. Most of this sailors probably couldn't read or write let alone fill out cargo manifests in such elegant writing. From what I have read Hancock was a smuggler of sorts. Hancock wrote these for them. Compare this document to any Hancock letter and letter formations the same. I can Post pictures of these as well.

Believe what you want. The document was written--in its entirety--by the ship's Captain. Who could read, write, and do lots of other things, like knowing enough mathematics to navigate on the high seas. He could certainly fill out a simple form.

Hancock was simply a person shipping goods. He had absolutely no authority to fill out and sign a Bill of Lading. Only the shipper could do that. It's still the same today.