Considering selling everything - Final Update/Tally

[kailes2872]

I wanted to respond in this original thread as I finally cleared out the last of the Phoenix purchase - nearly 6 months from the date.

I can say, with 100% certainty that it has been an adventure with many lessons learned.

In my original calculations of the deal, I thought that I might have $2,000 in total value. That was an underestimation. I lost a bunch, but not nearly as much as I had originally thought that I would.

The original purchase was $14,600. I spent another $178 to finish out the 1970 Topps set to have a better value to sell - so the net cost was $14,778.

In the end, I got back a little over half from a gross perspective - $7,897.64. I paid a little over 300 in postage and supplies. Ebay, Paypal, and AH fees were a bit over $600. I had another $250+ in travel fees in the original trip as well as a trip to Ohio. So the net was somewhere around $7,000 recouped.

In addition, I kept a nice starter lot of '50 Bowmans that I calculated at $800. I kept a lower grade lot of 47 '53 Bowmans ($400) and am in the process of slowly building both sets as cards and deals become available.

I kept autographed baseballs of Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and have a nice display in the basement of the card/ball combos.

I kept a nice batch of autographed pictures - highlighted by Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Peyton & Roethlisberger together, Dan Marino, 2 Nolan Ryan autographed photos (including the Ventura picture). I also kept a nice Mantle/Mays and Mantle Williams auto picture that I was told were counterfeit - so I have ascribed no value to those - only a picture with grafitti on it.

Of course, the desire for a '56 set was what started all of it and I did pick up a pretty good sized '56 lot that I am now 17 cards away from completing. Ironically, the reason that I pursued this lot versus others is because it had several HOFers in the lot - Koufax, Berra, Robinson (2x), Mays, Ford, Williams and several others. However, nearly all of the HOFers were lower grade and I have replaced nearly all of them with PSA 6 examples. There was a value somewhere between $600-$800 for the cards in this lot.


Finally, I kept a small pre-war binder that had a dozen or so T206 low grade commons as well as 33 Goudey's, 34 Goudey's, Sports Kings, 39 Play Balls. There were multiple Heinie Manush's, a 33 Gabby Harnett, 39 Joe Cronin, Rudy York, and a few other notables. All were lower grade to mid-grade at best and no high end HOFers, only the lower tier guys. But, I did not have any pre-war and now I do. It probably has a little bit of value, but given the condition, not a ton.

Every single lot lost money.
My binder of pre-war cards and higher-end autograph cards cost $1,500. By my count, I got back $1,085 but had $137 in expenses - so this lot cost me $552. As mentioned above, I still have the T206's, the Goudey's, Sports Kings and Play Balls, but it does not add up to $552. I somewhat regret selling the PSA A Cobb as it got less than $300 on Ebay and after fees, was a net of less than $250. However, it had clipped corners and was in rough shape. I will get a nice PSA 3-4 example at some point, but I probably should have just held onto that one until I did.

The binder of older autographs and memorbilia was $500 If I calculated correctly, I got $328 back with another $60 in expenses, so I lost $232. This was a classic example of buying something that I had no idea how to value and paying the price.

The biggest money loser was the Assorted lot of card from 1940-1970 The cost of this lot was $2,110 When it was described to me, it felt like this had some really good stuff. However, when I got it and went through it, I found that the 48 Bowman Berra and Feller cards had pin holes. The '58 Mantle was just okay, the '57 Williams didn't fetch much, and many of the older commons were in wholesale, junk condition. I only got $659 from this lot with another $79 in expenses, so I lost $1,531. I did keep the 47 '53 Bowman Colors (including Musial, Rizzuto, Hodges, and Fox in lower grade), so there was some value there of $300 or so, but this was painful. I really learned a lesson about condition with this lot.

Surprisingly, the lot of autographed cards did almost as well as any of them. I had $1,100 into these and got back $1,059 with $175 in expenses - so a loss of $216 - but way beyond where I thought I would be. I consigned these to Heritage as well as some of the higher end ones. Mark Anderson on this board was fantastic to work with and I exceeded my estimates on my lots. I had no idea that there was a market for these autographed cards - 80% of them lower end guys from the 80's - but there was and they did a great job of marketing them.

I lost a bunch on the Carl Hubbell lot The cost of this lot was $1,090. It had the Hubbell bat, ball and modern glove from '86 as well as a Lefty Gomez signed bat. Both bats were broken. The lot also contained the Aaron and Mays balls which I kept. These netted $280 after expenses, so I lost $810 - or said another way, bought the most expensive Mays and Aaron balls that will ever be sold.

Autographed pictures I got destroyed on this lot. It was $1500 and had a really nice framed autographed picture of Mantle/Williams and Mantle/Mays. It also had autographed pictures of DiMaggio, Mays, and Mantle. I showed them to a board member as I was actually excited to hang those on my basement walls. He informed me that they all looked couterfeit - even though they had COA's. (They were not from JSA or PSA). This was pretty soul crushing. I reached back out to the seller and asked for some money back on these and he refused. He told me that they were sold with Certs and he would not take them back. I have framed all of them and hung them on my walls. They look really nice as pictures with graffitti on them. In this lot was also some random autographed photos (mostly NFL) that did check out. I sold a few of them and was able to recoup a net of about $190. Between this lot and the 1940-1970's lot is where I took the biggest hair cut.

I actually did okay on most of the post war card lots I lost money on all of them but it wasn't the 4 figure losses I had in some of the ones above.

I took a couple hundred dollar beating on the '66's because it was lower condition and had to be auctioned as such. That lot had a Mantle, a Mays, Jenkins, Sutton, Koufax, and a few others - but they were in Poor/Fair condition. It was a classic case of someone putting a price tag on them based upon Beckett value and not taking condition into account. I foolishly bought them and took the hit. I also lost nearly $400 on the '67 lot as the market for mid-grade low number commons isn't good and it doesn't work trying to sell them individually. All the rest of the losses were pretty minor, surprisingly.


I met some really great people on this board I had folks checking in on how the grind was going. They offered fantastic advice, motivation, and support. These were people who I had no interactio with prior to this purchase, but, they were legitimately concerned for me and provided cheerleading from the sidelines.

I had some great interactions with guys like Rob Bessette, Nate Mack, Jimi Vintage, David James, Eric Matthews, Tom Boblitt, Mike (Bocabirdman), Pastor Chris, Drew Ecback (another '56 set collector!), Dennis Ballou, Christian Augustus, Jake Elwell, and many many others that I am forgetting but were really helpful through the process.

I don't wish my ineptitude on anyone - and with your acumen, you probably don't have to worry about it - but for a few grand to make so many great friends and contacts in the hobby, it was nearly worth it.


So, six months later, I have cleaned out nearly all of that inventory. I have a near compelte '56 set and last week bought 199 of the 206 '55's and 248 of the '250 '54's. I have my eyes on a '54 Aaron this week and am looking to track down '55 Clemente and Koufax. By the Robert Morris show in May, I will have all three sets complete and I will begin working on completing the '50 and '53 Bowman. My '56 set is really nice as all of the 34 HOFers will be slabbed at least PSA 6 by the time I am done. Ironically, had I just did a BIN on a very nice set of '56's, and bought the '55's and '54's in August, I would have probably been in the same exact spot. However, I would have had about 200 less trips to the post office and would have missed out on the fun of standing in line in the morning and getting to know Joe the postman so well.

Finally, I have learned that I have no desire to be on the seller side of the desk. I am a collector. I like to buy cards and build sets. I buy high and sell low. I don't negotiate well as I value the relationship too much and bring too much emotion to the transaction. In the poker game of card collecting, I am the rake. As long as I know this, I should be OK. I just need to stay keen to my collecting focus, and continue to collect for the joy of it.


Thanks to all of those who helped on this ride.

[vthobby]

Kevin,
Since I was with you since the 2nd day of your post, I figured to weigh in now at the end. What a journey. Filled with lessons, new friends, new cardboard, and stories! Sorry you could not get more out of the cards but you gave it the 'ole college try so to speak.

Good luck on your current missions and take care,

Peace, Mike

[iwantitiwinit]

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

I wrote off a few thousand dollar baseball card loss and ironically got audited that same year. I missed one small stock sale legitimately and had to pay a little but the baseball card loss write off was fine. I just showed where I bought and sold it. No questions.

[Tabe]

I would consider going back to the seller again on the autographed photos. The fact that they have a COA means nothing. That protects his purchase when he got them - not yours. By selling them, he's warranting that they're legit. They're not, so he's liable for them.

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, your patience paid off. You made the best of the situation and kept some good stuff. It was interesting following the journey.

[gnpaden]

I just read through this thread and have definitely been there, but in different context. About a year ago, I just went nuts on busting wax (cases) and spent close to $5k...and maybe got $800-$1000 in return and I lost it. I went home got my safety deposit key, emptied it and went to LCS to sell my entire collection, which consists of many rare MJ inserts from 90's, MJ rookie and large quantity of vintage from 1955-1959. The LCS owner said, "take your cards home, think about it, and call me in a week"...I put my cards back in the bank and stopped buying wax at that point. We all learn as we do, almost a trial by fire effect. I enjoyed reading your journey and you have an amazing collection!

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

Thanks for the head's up. I just filed this past weekend and sent everything off. I called my tax guy to see if there was something that I could do after the fact. He told me that he wouldn't do a schedule C since I have gainful emplyoment, but that I could do a schedule D capital loss of an investment. I can take losses (or offset gains) up to 3k per year until the losses are accounted for. It will take 3 years, but it will be found money in the process.

Thanks for the tip. I am going to go buy a card today with that found money!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I haven't read through every post, but my comments to the original poster is that if you lost $6K, in the big picture some people spend that much for one course in college and really don't learn anything - but learned something that will stay with you the rest of your life as a positive lesson. Also, you are a stand-up guy for honoring your word - and you probably could of legally backed-out on the deal if the guy did over-estimate the value of the cards. I wish you and your wife the best.

[glchen]

That's great hearing that you didn't lose as much as you expected. It's always a learning experience. Even now there are so many times that I lost money, it's not even funny. Recently, I saw a card at a major auction house with back damage described as paper loss. I looked at the somewhat small scan, and I thought it looked like scrapbook residue on the card which could be soaked off, and not paper loss. I didn't want to ask the auction house if it really were paper loss because I didn't want to lose a possibly great deal on a card. I won the card, and sure enough there was scrapbook residue on the card, ..... but also paper loss.... I recently sold the card off for something like a $400 loss. Sometimes you get what you deserve, but it's another lesson learned!

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I would send the signed pics into PSA and see if by chance they're real