Trimming - How common?

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

That's a good start, but I also recommend buying a loupe and learning how to distinguish between a factory cut and a non-factory cut. A short card doesn’t always mean it’s trimmed.

I've got the loupe. Any suggestions on good info? I'll start by looking at the Clemente against other '66 cards.



The black in the right pic shows how the card is a little short L/R, but much more T/B.

[a761506]

Your 1966 Clemente looks like a factory miscut to me. It is highly unlikely that someone would purposely trim a card in that manner and try to pass it off as legitimate.

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by a761506

Your 1966 Clemente looks like a factory miscut to me. It is highly unlikely that someone would purposely trim a card in that manner and try to pass it off as legitimate.

Thanks for the input!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Gmrson

I've got the loupe. Any suggestions on good info? I'll start by looking at the Clemente against other '66 cards.

For me, I take a group of like cards (for this exercise I grabbed a stack of '62s) and put them all together and take my loupe and look at the sides. I'm looking at the grain of the cut. Is it consistent on all the cards? If you find one inconsistent, and the cards measures short, it just might be trimmed. I do this for all four sides of the cards.

This is also a good method to tell if cards have been re-colored - for example '71 Topps. The black marker or Sharpee will always bleed through to the edges and when you stack a group of them together and one of them has been recolored, that black in will stick out like a sore thumb from the others.

Edited: My picture is not the best in the world, but you get the idea. You can get a really good look with a loupe.

[vintagetoppsguy]

If you suspect the Clemente of being trimmed, pay close attention to the top border. If it is trimmed, that's where I suspect it will be.

Look at the bottom border of your card. See how the bottom border tilts upwards as you look at it from left to right? In other words, you have more bottom border on the right side of the card than you do on the left side of the card? Typically (but not always), when you see a border like the, the opposite border should have the same characteristic. In other words, the top border should slope slightly too. However, yours doesn't. It is straight across. That would concern me. I'm not saying it's trimmed, but that's where I would start to look if you suspect it of being trimmed.

Look at this Clemente on eBay. See how the bottom border slopes upwards from left to right. Then look at the top border and you can see the same slope(but in the opposite direction). In other words, the bottom of the card has more border on the right side of the card than it does on the left side of the card, but the top of the card has more border on the left side of the card than it does on the right. Make sense?

Now look at the two sides. See how the left border slopes? You have more border near the bottom than near the top. Now see how the right border slopes. It's just the opposite, you have more border on the top than on the bottom.

My point is, when one border slopes the opposite border should usually (again, not always) slope too.

[Gmrson]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If you suspect the Clemente of being trimmed, pay close attention to the top border. If it is trimmed, that's where I suspect it will be.

Look at the bottom border of your card. See how the bottom border tilts upwards as you look at it from left to right? In other words, you have more bottom border on the right side of the card than you do on the left side of the card? Typically (but not always), when you see a border like the, the opposite border should have the same characteristic. In other words, the top border should slope slightly too. However, yours doesn't. It is straight across. That would concern me. I'm not saying it's trimmed, but that's where I would start to look if you suspect it of being trimmed.

Look at this Clemente on eBay. See how the bottom border slopes upwards from left to right. Then look at the top border and you can see the same slope(but in the opposite direction). In other words, the bottom of the card has more border on the right side of the card than it does on the left side of the card, but the top of the card has more border on the left side of the card than it does on the right. Make sense?

Now look at the two sides. See how the left border slopes? You have more border near the bottom than near the top. Now see how the right border slopes. It's just the opposite, you have more border on the top than on the bottom.

My point is, when one border slopes the opposite border should usually (again, not always) slope too.

Thanks so much for the "education"! I only noticed the difference in the top and bottom "angle" cuts recently. I would have never thought about looking at the sides with a stack of the same year but when I did that with a loupe, I not only noticed a minor difference in the grain, I also saw the top of the card sloped down ever so slightly so the glossy front caught the light when looking at the top side in a stack of cards. I appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

[begsu1013]

another quick tip to detect trimming is simply by running your finger along the edges. takes a little while, but take a older common card and trim one side. then run your finger along the factory edge and the newly trimmed edge. it's a very noticeable difference! the trimmed edge will definitely feel "smoother".

although, agreed with other folks. simply because the card is shorter doesn't necessarily mean it's been trimmed. a lot of time it's simply a factory miscut.

and if it's over the internet, always deal with someone that has a return policy.

[111gecko]

First off, never beat yourself up about trimmed cards. We have all bought them and will continue to do so as long as we collect. Unfortunately, it is part of the hobby. Many times collectors are unaware cards are trimmed. I agree with many of the comments that sizes vary on the cards so measuring isn't always the answer. For me, the easiest way to learn was to take a card from almost every year and trim just enough off of one side but leave it attached. I attached a photo. You can now look basically side by side with a true raw edge and a trimmed edge. It is amazing when you compare this way how different they actually are. Look under a loop and it is night and day. It takes a while, but pretty soon, you can pick them out pretty easily. Just my 2 cents..