1952 Topps Mantle; Worth It In Any Condition?

[HRBAKER]

I get the allure of the card but not that one.
I wouldn't be interested @ 10% of what it brought xc for the opportunity to sell it at a profit perhaps. That's hideous but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

[Bestdj777]

1952 Topps Mantles, in lower grade, have been going very strong over the last couple of years. I bought my first one roughly five years ago and paid a little less than this one. It was damaged, but I love it. When I went for my second, the price for anything somewhat presentable jumped by $500 or so dollars. I did not think that this would bring what it did. As I told Chris, I thought it was a $2,800 card and would have easily laid out the $2,000 on it myself it I thought I had a shot of winning it.

At the end of the day, some people like well loved Mantle cards. I happen to be one of them. And, you can apparently not get an authentic 52 Topps Mantle for less than $3,000 anymore.

Congrats to the buyer and the seller!

[MattyC]

When one accounts for the large amount of crackouts and crossovers, there are probably around 1300 or so graded by SGC and PSA. It is simply specious logic to try and disparage the hobby's most desired postwar icon by citing that number-- because the demand simply dwarfs it. Hence the prices examples fetch.

There could be five of a card on earth; if no one wants it, it's worthless. Like the card or not-- most do love it, and most do want one. And the relationship between the number of Mantles and those who want one is such that prices are what they are. If that relationship was the same as the UD Griffey, the card would cost the same as the Griffey. Sheer supply is only part of the equation, and focusing only on part will fail to give an accurate, complete picture.

Then a whole separate discussion is the difference between an average looking example and a beauty. Of all the examples extant, how many are off centered, tilted, or otherwise suffering in the eye appeal department? The rather fierce competition for the better looking specimens in turn makes it a desired piece, even in rough condition-- it becomes what some call an, "I just want to own a copy" card. The CJ Shoeless was like that for me-- an icon I could not find or afford in great shape, but was just overjoyed to even own a beater.

As to the future, no one knows-- but as a collector in his 30s, I can say that I and the probably twenty or so collectors I know between 30 and 35 all love and pursue the card. Our children already know how much it means to us, and all the reasons why, and some of those children may in turn grow up valuing the card. The same way I value a Gehrig or Ruth or others I never saw play. Heck, I never saw Mantle play; that doesn't prohibit me or others my age from studying the game, and becoming fans of past players, and wanting to collect them. That does not even factor in how, to a baseball card collector, certain cards-- especially the 1952 Topps Mantle-- have an historical value and cachet to the collecting hobby, beyond being an early card representing a great player.

Collectors in their 30s have a few good decades left to support the card. As do collectors in their 40s. So over the next few decades many of us will be enjoying either the hunt for or ownership of a cherished card.

It was mentioned that the prices began to skyrocket in the 80s. That means we have a 30+ year trend in progress, of this card being quite expensive. That is quite a long history.

Ultimately, collecting is a deeply personal endeavor and no one is ever forcing anyone else what cards to buy. That's why I always question why some take a supercilious stance against cards others like, and how another man wants to spend his hard-earned money. A collector just needs to be happy with cards, that's all. If the owner of that PSA 1 card is happy, that's all that matters.

[HRBAKER]

Don't disagree with your assessment, there is going to always need to be a group of people "who have to have one AND don't care how it looks" for examples like the one above to continue to grow in value. It's a key card in the hobby no doubt, there are a great number of collectors like myself who could buy one but have no real desire to own it though. Hopefully that sounds less supercilious to you.

[Republicaninmass]

"Worth it in any condition?"


Not to me.

Low grade with nice eye appeal will always be worth more than the same grade with less eye appeal. I'd hate to think anyone is spending their rent or 401k money on these low grade copies at, what is currently, the top of the market.

[Exhibitman]

Matt, I don't think it is an issue of disparaging a marquee card, putting down someone else's spending choices, etc., and I understand that rare may equate to obscure and that high demand may equate to a high price. And I am by no means a condition bug. I really don't care about card condition...to a point. Most of my 'big' cards are lower grades; heck, I won this in the Sterling auction:



My question/observation is that the 1952 Mantle seems to have reached a point where simply having one is more important to some collectors than how it actually looks. The card in question is FUGLY--what we'd all call a filler for any other card--but still pulled in over $3800? I find that incredible for a postwar mainstream issue with thousands of known examples.

[MattyC]

Adam, well stated and I can't disagree that such a sum for such a card is really wild and eye catching.

Jack, all good, brother; my poor balls get so busted by work that getting them busted here is a joy and escape in comparison! Just talking cards in any capacity is pleasant on certain days.

[HappyJack41]

Originally Posted by MattyC

When one accounts for the large amount of crackouts and crossovers, there are probably around 1300 or so graded by SGC and PSA. It is simply specious logic to try and disparage the hobby's most desired postwar icon by citing that number-- because the demand simply dwarfs it. Hence the prices examples fetch.

There could be five of a card on earth; if no one wants it, it's worthless. Like the card or not-- most do love it, and most do want one. And the relationship between the number of Mantles and those who want one is such that prices are what they are. If that relationship was the same as the UD Griffey, the card would cost the same as the Griffey. Sheer supply is only part of the equation, and focusing only on part will fail to give an accurate, complete picture.

Then a whole separate discussion is the difference between an average looking example and a beauty. Of all the examples extant, how many are off centered, tilted, or otherwise suffering in the eye appeal department? The rather fierce competition for the better looking specimens in turn makes it a desired piece, even in rough condition-- it becomes what some call an, "I just want to own a copy" card. The CJ Shoeless was like that for me-- an icon I could not find or afford in great shape, but was just overjoyed to even own a beater.

As to the future, no one knows-- but as a collector in his 30s, I can say that I and the probably twenty or so collectors I know between 30 and 35 all love and pursue the card. Our children already know how much it means to us, and all the reasons why, and some of those children may in turn grow up valuing the card. The same way I value a Gehrig or Ruth or others I never saw play. Heck, I never saw Mantle play; that doesn't prohibit me or others my age from studying the game, and becoming fans of past players, and wanting to collect them. That does not even factor in how, to a baseball card collector, certain cards-- especially the 1952 Topps Mantle-- have an historical value and cachet to the collecting hobby, beyond being an early card representing a great player.

Collectors in their 30s have a few good decades left to support the card. As do collectors in their 40s. So over the next few decades many of us will be enjoying either the hunt for or ownership of a cherished card.

It was mentioned that the prices began to skyrocket in the 80s. That means we have a 30+ year trend in progress, of this card being quite expensive. That is quite a long history.

Ultimately, collecting is a deeply personal endeavor and no one is ever forcing anyone else what cards to buy. That's why I always question why some take a supercilious stance against cards others like, and how another man wants to spend his hard-earned money. A collector just needs to be happy with cards, that's all. If the owner of that PSA 1 card is happy, that's all that matters.

Spoken like a true biased owner of a 1952 Mantle.......lol, just busting your balls. In all seriousness at the end of the day collectors are just grasping at straws just to own an abundantly available card. Buyer's remorse almost always sets in when dealing with pieces of trash such as this example. Which is why they're CONSTANTLY right back up for sale soon after the collector "get's it out of his system". Seen it time and time again over the past 20 years in this hobby.

[kamikidEFFL]

Hey to say u own a 52 mantle even in the shape this one is in is still pretty cool. I don't know if I could of went this high but sometimes when bidding you can get lost in just saying you need to own it no matter what. Hey congrats to the guy who owns it now and hey maybe a heirloom for his kid

[Rickyy]

I think the demand is always there for this card...since many can't get into the big $ range...(like me) even the lesser grades are appealing for those who has to have one.

Ricky Y

[tonyo]

I just bought one (not the one in the OP) and I'm still trying to come to grips with the amount I paid, but since it arrived I've been admiring it. Still sitting on my desk, in front of me as I type, yet to join it's eventual place amongst my topps/bowman hof base card run.

There IS an allure unexplainable for a non poet such as myself.


Tony

p.s. low grade but a nicely center example for MattyC's benefit

[jb67]

Looks like buyer remorse or just good old capitalism at work. Card is for sale again.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...item5419d52921

[Exhibitman]

Bought by a dealer to flip. Interesting to see if it goes.

[tonyo]

So much for the allure

[HappyJack41]

Originally Posted by jb67

Looks like buyer remorse or just good old capitalism at work. Card is for sale again.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...item5419d52921

Oh that's rich. It was insane somebody even went $3800 for this condition.....at $5K you need to be checked into a hospital with padded walls

[AustinMike]

My opinion is that the '52 Mantle is vastly overpriced at this time and will suffer a precipitous drop in value (most likely a 90% drop) tomorrow. But, being the nice guy that I am, I will gladly pay 20% of the current value, thereby minimizing your loss.

PS The same goes for every early Mantle that I still need.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by kamikidEFFL

Hey to say u own a 52 mantle even in the shape this one is in is still pretty cool. I don't know if I could of went this high but sometimes when bidding you can get lost in just saying you need to own it no matter what. Hey congrats to the guy who owns it now and hey maybe a heirloom for his kid

That gives a whole new perspective on "heirloom quality." I think this is a symptom of what happens in this hobby when "you have to have something." To me it leads down a lot of paths of being less discriminating on what you buy and who you buy it from in many instances. Not trying to be supercilious, just providing a POV.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

That gives a whole new perspective on "heirloom quality." I think this is a symptom of what happens in this hobby when "you have to have something." To me it leads down a lot of paths of being less discriminating on what you buy and who you buy it from in many instances. Not trying to be supercilious, just providing a POV.

You know what they say Jeff, People will gladly give up what they really want for what they can get today.

[pawpawdiv9]

Not to be hypocriticial, but i was just thinking>
The Sterling auction ended? Feb 5th right? (correct me if wrong)
and the person already has it in hand? or they are expecting to have it, when this auction ends on the 17th?

[MattyC]

One aspect that can't be overlooked is that when shopping on a budget within a specific grade, options can often be limited.

With respect to the 1952 Topps Mantle, there are 191 PSA 1s and 45 SGC 10s. With crack-outs and crossovers, there are likely considerably fewer than 236. Let's say an even 200.

If the price tag of the 2s is prohibitive to someone who wants one for their collection, then such a collector is relegated to seeking a POOR-grade specimen. This shopper would also likely and rightly surmise that a freakishly nice "PSA 1/SGC 10" would likely sell at auction or privately for much closer to a 1.5 or 2 price. So of those 200 cards in the shopper's grade/price range, many are going to look the part, meaning the grade.

So in the under 5k price tag, there is such a limited supply of the card relative to demand that it's no wonder there's stiff competition for the lowest graded examples these days. Pretty AUTHs command anywhere from 10k to 25k, and 2s are 10k+ now.

So if someone has 10k and beyond to shop for the card, their options are much greater than the collector seeking to drop only a couple grand.

[mrmantlecollector]

%

[HRBAKER]

I agree that if the buyer would be happy then he made the right call for himself. This looks to be a speculator who thinks that $3800 is a cost that can be recouped and then some due to the demand that surrounds the card. Maybe so. For me this is not the $3800 Mantle card I want to be holding when the music stops.

I guess looking at it another way from my perspective. If in order to have a Ferrari, I have to buy a smashed up, rusted out one that doesn't run then I am not sure I have a Ferrari. Just a personal thing, to each their own.

I do not think that examples like this will continue to follow the escalation trail and be dragged up infinitum by the overall strength of demand of the card. There has to be some sort of limit to what most people would pay for a card that looks like this regardless of what card it started out as.

[Section103]

These cards are way out of my reach; but if they weren't, I'd still take the 51 Bowman every day of the week before the 52 Topps.

[thecardstore99]

In terms of supply and demand, I think it's worth considering that many of the 1300-2000 known graded copies may never hit the market and will remain in private collections. So I can easily see this card appreciate in value over time given the number of actual available copies.

I do like the idea that a previous poster made about the supply possibly increasing as the older population starts to pass and the kids sell off their father's collection. But it's also possible the cards stay in the family and never hit the market.

Since you never know when the next time you'll see a PSA 1 Mantle hit the open market again, I can understand why collectors are willing to pay the prices they are paying.

[pawpawdiv9]

I was just browsing and noticed on the right side- popular ebay items
and this laundry washed-out Mantle was advertised on Ebay.
Apparently the guy that bought it from Sterlings, sold it for the 5k we saw in the previous Ebay listing, well this time it is listed for 8K by someone else now.

Note**** how the seller has a 52 Mick pictured, but the description says 51 bowman
If the prices are going thru the roof on these 52 Micks, it will take no time to reach Babe Ruth status, give it like 10 or even 20 yrs, we be seeing Honus Wagner figures.
Listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...3D311221347229

[egri]

I'd give the Mantle market another couple of years to run, then I think we'll see the prices start to stabilize and even decrease. The average American income is $50,000, and I can't see this trend of shelling out 1/10th of that for a beat up Mantle continuing on much longer. If anything, it will hasten the bursting of the bubble, as old collectors and their kids decide they'd rather have the money than the cardboard.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by thecardstore99

In terms of supply and demand, I think it's worth considering that many of the 1300-2000 known graded copies may never hit the market and will remain in private collections. So I can easily see this card appreciate in value over time given the number of actual available copies.

I do like the idea that a previous poster made about the supply possibly increasing as the older population starts to pass and the kids sell off their father's collection. But it's also possible the cards stay in the family and never hit the market.

Since you never know when the next time you'll see a PSA 1 Mantle hit the open market again, I can understand why collectors are willing to pay the prices they are paying.

when you get the card for free its much easier to sell it....