Greatest quarterback you have seen?

[Tabe]

I've seen lots of people slag the Dolphins' running game during Marino's tenure and they ignore Marino's part in its failures. Even in his youth, Marino was incredibly slow afoot. His technique in all facets of the running game was awful, amplified by his lack of quickness. He did nothing to hide the football in any way on running plays. His slowness limited where his running backs could go and what they could do. And not hiding the ball telegraphed plays.

Did Dan have HOFers back there to run the ball? No. But if you rotate every part of a car except one - in this case Marino - and it still fails, maybe the problem is really the one part you didn't change.

That said, nobody could fling the ball like Marino. He was amazing, that's for sure.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Did Dan have HOFers back there to run the ball? No. But if you rotate every part of a car except one - in this case Marino - and it still fails, maybe the problem is really the one part you didn't change.

So the offense during Marino's years was failing? I didn't realize that - I thought they scored a lot of points.

[Runscott]

I just checked the Dolphin's stats during the Marino years. The offense was the highest scoring in their division 8 times and 2nd 6 times. Yet they finished first in their division only 5 times and 2nd 4 times. The offense was ranked at least as high in their division in point scoring, as they finished, all but 3 years - in one of those they still won the division. The other 2 took place in 1997 and 1998 at the end of his career.

Sounds like a defensive problem, which is how most people viewed it at the time.

You can change all the cogs in the offense you want, but Marino was able to score with any of them. Unfortunately, the other teams continued to score against his defense. Perhaps Marino scored too fast, leaving his defense on the team too much?

[steve B]

Ok, Ok, I'll keep it simple and pick just one......

Julian Edelman.

Can't get much better than perfect right?

Steve B

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ok, Ok, I'll keep it simple and pick just one......

Julian Edelman.

Can't get much better than perfect right?

Steve B

...and I'll go with Jon Ryan

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by steve B

Ok, Ok, I'll keep it simple and pick just one......

Julian Edelman.

Love this guy! Edelman might be my favorite player in the league right now. I'm a little biased because he went to my HS, but he's just a ball player... QB, WR, DB, return man, he'll do whatever.
His college highlights are pretty electric
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqr-fAkrcV8
And found his HS champ game highlights.. Wood-SIDE!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmZViAEuAt8t

Love the earlier mention Chad Pennington also. He was never gonna be in any "greatest ever" conversation (except this), but he got absolutely everything out of what he was given. I also loved the press conference when he turned the tables on the a group of reporters, and ended up lecturing them on journalistic integrity, etc. Super smart, super classy guy.

As far as greatest I've ever seen, for me it's gotta be Joe for many of the reasons already mentioned. He was so calm, so cool, and made everything look for effortless that I think it's taken for granted how great an athlete he was (especially when young). I also think his arm strength was often underrated.

Others that were great to watch-
Steve Young- the ultimate dual threat. His running ability was second to none, and I think compares favorably with any of today's dual threat guys (just watch his 49yd game winner against Vikes in 1988). I think he became truly great when he learned to settle down in the pocket, and for a few years from about 1993 on, he was so efficient passing and running.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O5fXUOAvoY

Brett Favre- IMO he was the most fun QB of that 1990's era to watch. It's fitting that Rodgers followed him because both these guys had absolute lazers, and could throw from any position/angle while on the move. I think Favre probably rubbed off on Rodgers a bit, especially in their willingness to take risks. Favre just got burned a lot more doing so, but his unpredictability, especially when completing passes or TDs on throws he NEVER should have attempted, was always entertaining.

Marino- I always thought his throwing motion was ugly, but he had a lightning quick release and could put it where he wanted. He was 20 years ahead of his time.

Aikman- perfectly proficient, almost a robot. Statistically, he never put up really gaudy passing numbers, but as a Niner fan, I remember his converting many a 3rd and long on those square ins to Irvin and Harper. In the Super Bowl he was lights out.

Kurt Warner- Warner was like a Koufax to football, at his peaks he was amazing. I think he gets short changed a lot because he was surrounded by amazing skill players, but he had a cannon arm and was incredibly decisive (as important as anything). His comeback years with the Cards, after everyone had written him off, were an awesome cap to his career.

Elway- I was never a huge Elway guy, but no one in the era combined his arm (strongest of the era) and athleticism. I do think he legacy is totally different if he doesn't win the SB in his final 2 years.


Current-
Brady and Rodgers- I think these guys are one and two of the modern era. I give Brady the edge because of the rings, and the fact he's helped keep the Pats near the top for 15 years. They've had talented teams, but I think there are several years during that run where they'd have been under .500 without him. His calm and confidence (like a Jeter) is a huge part of winning, since I think it rubs off on anyone he plays with. On the field he's incredibly consistent, play to play, game to game, season to season.. I think he has an underrated arm and THE PERFECT throwing motion, is supremely decisive, and for a slow guy, he moves really well in the pocket. I think the term "functional mobility" was made for Brady.

I'm with Bill on Rodgers, he is virtually the perfect quarterback. He may have the greatest combination of measurable talent (speed, arm), smarts, and intangible traits (leader, calm and full awareness in the pocket and down field). I read an article criticizing him and saying he'd never be truly great because he doesn't take enough chances, using his low INT% to prove this point. IMO this was some of the laziest professional analysis I've seen... just watch the guy! He not only fits the ball into tight windows as well as anyone, he's able to identify windows that will open for a split second. The TD pass to Richard Rogers against the Cowboys is the perfect example. Based on his amazing individual play, and even if he doesn't win another SB, I still put him above the others (except Brady) of this era.

Manning- I love watching Manning, have great respect for him, but I also think he's often been affected the pressure of big games. I also think he's one of the most stat conscious QBs around. I've seen him throw so many TDs inside the 5, or while up 4 TDs. I don't hold it against him, he earned the right to call his own plays from very early in his career, which is a feat in its own right. It does however make it hard for me to use his other worldly stats to place him above guys like Montana or Brady though.

Brees- love Brees, another guy who gets everything out of the body he's been given. He's a very good athlete, moves very well in the pocket, and has enough arm to make the throws. He's also the poster boy for QB footwork. Watch him, getting squared and stepping into nearly every throw, compared with guys like Cutler and Stafford.

Big Ben- I think Big Ben is underrated. He has all the prototypical pocket attributes- size, cannon arm, decisive.. but he separates himself with his strength and elusiveness, and ability to extend plays. I think he's a pure winner (on the field that is).

Russell Wilson- Wilson seems like he's a bit polarizing, with a lot of people saying he overrated, being the beneficiary of a good system. He does play for a team with a great D, and does have a great running back... but even when they run, he's often not just handing off. He's often making a split second read whether to hand off or keep. Those plays often succeed because of his decisiveness, and the Seahawks seem to be the most effective team running zone read plays, after Cam, Kaep and RGIII took the league by storm a few years ago. I also think Wilson can be really decisive in the pocket, especially on 3rd downs, where he keeps lots of drives alive with his arm (loves those slants)... and then his ability to improvise and make plays outside the pocket is obvious. I think he's the single most elusive QB I've ever seen, and this includes great running QBs like Young and Kaep. Wilson seems fully aware in the pocket (of rushers) at all times, while also maintaining awareness down field. His pocket movement is so quick, he can wait just a split second longer, making it tougher for defensive players to adjust their angles whenever he spins, ducks, or shuffles... this is very different than a guy like Kaep, who just runs away, and often seems to lose down field awareness when the sh*t hits the fan right in front of him.

Luck- he's got a long way to go, but he's a closest thing to Rodgers' total QB package- smarts, leadership, speed/elusiveness, and though he may not fully have Rodgers' arm strength, the makes up for it with the ability to run like a full back. I can't wait to see him develop even more over the next 5-10 years.

It's amazing how much football changes every 10-20 years, and with each shift, stats become almost useless when comparing each era's greats. I'm with Scott in that you almost have to do this with your eyes. Good thing the NFL is as well film documented as it is.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I'm with Bill on Rodgers, he is virtually the perfect quarterback. He may have the greatest combination of measurable talent (speed, arm), smarts, and intangible traits (leader, calm and full awareness in the pocket and down field). I read an article criticizing him and saying he'd never be truly great because he doesn't take enough chances, using his low INT% to prove this point. IMO this was some of the laziest professional analysis I've seen... just watch the guy! He not only fits the ball into tight windows as well as anyone, he's able to identify windows that will open for a split second.

Hey Ian,

It is very lazy analysis. He doesn't take enough chances? LOL, Aaron Rodgers pushes the ball down the field more than any quarterback in the NFL:

Adjusted net yards per pass attempt 2014

1. Rodgers, GB 8.65
2. Romo, Dal 8.11
3. Roethlisberger, Pitt 7.82
4. Manning, Den 7.68
5. Luck, Ind 7.28

Rodgers gets, on average, a half more yard per pass attempt than any other quarterback in the NFL. He gets more than a yard more per pass attempt than every quarterback in the NFL, save for Romo, Roethlisberger and Manning. Yet he also....has the lowest interception rate in the NFL. He throws the longest passes, but gets intercepted the least.

Interception rate 2014

1. Rodgers, GB 1.0
2. Smith, KC 1.3
3. Palmer, Cinn 1.3
4. Roethlisberger, Pitt 1.5
5. Brady, NE 1.5%
6. Wilson, Sea 1.5%
7. Stafford, Det 2.0%
8. Carr, Oak 2.0%
9. Tannehill, Mia 2.0%
10. Romo, Dal 2.1%

What wide receiver has the most 60 + yard receptions since the start of the 2011 season?

Jordy Nelson has 12 of them to lead the NFL. 9 for touchdowns.
Victor Cruz is second with 10.
Only Cruz and DeSean Jackson (8) even have half as many as Nelson over that span.

Not surprisingly, since 2011, Rodgers leads the NFL with 20 passes of 60 + yards.

But yeah, he doesn't take chances. Methinks that writer is a moron. Or he doesn't watch Green Bay play. Or both. I can't tell you how many times I've seen Rodgers chuck it downfield 40 yards on 3rd and 3. And he makes a lot of them. But it sometimes makes me nuts.

"What the hell are you DOING, Aar....oh, never mind. Touchdown, Packers. What a great throw!"

I've said that at least three times in the last year. That's why he gets the big bucks/MVPs/Olivia Munn.

The Packers need a new defensive coordinator. They need to resign Randall Cobb and Bryan Bulaga, and add two new middle linebackers-one via the draft, one via free agency. If they do that, I guarantee they win the Super Bowl again within two years.

The middle linebacking unit, which is the key to the 3-4 defense, is the weakest position on the Packers by far. And they keep burning the Packers.

Brad Jones doesn't need to be anywhere near Green Bay next year. He's the guy that blew it on the fake field goal touchdown. I was yelling at my tv. Apparently he's too dumb to see what was going on.

And A.J. Hawk, God love him, he just doesn't have it anymore. He's taken pay cut after pay cut to stay in Green Bay, and I'll always love his loyalty to the team. But he can't start anymore, and he really doesn't offer much from a rotational standpoint, either. These guys can't wrap up on anybody. And they don't have the speed to close gaps. You're constantly seeing our safeties having to run up because our linebackers lose contain, and running backs shoot up through the gap, and right by them. We were much better in the second half when we folded Clay into the middle linebacking rotation, but it wore him down.

Chase the quarterback. Shoot the gap. Chase the quarterback. Shoot the gap.

Is it any wonder he was gassed at the end of the 4th quarter?

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

It is very lazy analysis. He doesn't take enough chances? LOL, Aaron Rodgers pushes the ball down the field more than any quarterback in the NFL:

That's why he gets the big bucks/MVPs/Olivia Munn.

He's with Olivia Munn?? Had no idea, but great score. My wife is in love with her character on HBO's Newsroom. We're down to our last episode.

You guys are so lucky he wore his hat backwards (allegedly) to his interview with the Niners in 2005. This, and Rodgers' overwhelming self assuredness, supposedly turned Mike McCarthy off so much, they took Alex at #1. By the next year you had both guys!! (though I think McCarthy is the interchangeable of the two)

He is such a beast of a player. I went to Lambeau for the first time this year, and watched him play the Bears on Sunday night. He was throwing darts all night, and the 40+ yard throw, while running hard to his right, was so typically Rodgers. He's athletic enough to escape the pressure, and can still square up enough to get that ball off and downfield with velocity, and he put it into the only spot it could go.

To the point of stat padding, Rodgers threw 6 TDs in the first half!! I can assure Manning finishes with 8 and a new NFL record... or at least dies trying. There's a great clip of his back up (Osweiler) getting pissed when Manning trots back on the field up 3-4 TDs toward the end of a game. Rodgers took one shot at the end zone in the 3rd quarter, on a 3rd down, then never took another. If guys wanna pad stats, so be it, it gets them paid, but it was impressive to see the Pack's restraint in this game. He played nearly 2 full quarters, one TD short of the NFL record. All his stats were fully in the context of the game, none coming via the late game hard play action fake on the 1 yard line while up 28.

Glad you agree with my take on the writer. I'll ask my friend to re-send the link, and forward to you. OT, my friend reads everything and is one who seems to form many/most of his opinions based what is written. It is amazing to me though how many people writing have no business writing! and as result how many opinions they affect. I mentioned in another thread, I once lived with a sports radio talk show host (some time nationally syndicated), who really knew very very little about anything he talked about, especially football... he mostly prepped by listening to the other talking heads.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So the offense during Marino's years was failing? I didn't realize that - I thought they scored a lot of points.

I was referring to the running game, not the offense in general. Apologies if I wasn't clear.

[billyb]

Best I ever saw play, it is two and hard to choose between them both. Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas.
These guys were field generals. And right behind them was Y. A. Tittle.