This Cum Posey appears to be a laser copy to me

[prewarsports]

If you look closely you can see where the other ink was sanded away. And yes this can be done. I was just serving as a court appointed expert (fraudulent photographs) a few months ago where a guy was sanding off ALL the ink on the backs of vintage press photos and then adding Conlon, Paul Thompson and Van Oeyen stamps over the blank backs in an attempt top turn Acme and United Press photos into the work of famous photographers. Without holding it in your hand and feeling the roughed up areas it would be impossible to tell from a scan. The person who did that on this Posey was probably not doing it to fake people out, but aesthetically trying to make the item look more like a 3X5 (which some people really get into). Who knows, but 100% this is an authentic signature clipped from one of the Homestead diplomas and then the rest of the ink was sanded away.

Rhys

[RichardSimon]

Rhys - I don't know how you can make the claim that it is 100% authentic without actually having it for an in person inspection.
You do say you need it in hand then you say it is 100%.
If you say it can be done with sandpaper I believe you. But you still need it in hand to determine if it is a laser print or has been sanded.
And someone who is aware enough to send it to PSA would probably know that a document is much more valuable then a simple signature.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

If you look closely you can see where the other ink was sanded away. And yes this can be done. I was just serving as a court appointed expert (fraudulent photographs) a few months ago where a guy was sanding off ALL the ink on the backs of vintage press photos and then adding Conlon, Paul Thompson and Van Oeyen stamps over the blank backs in an attempt top turn Acme and United Press photos into the work of famous photographers. Without holding it in your hand and feeling the roughed up areas it would be impossible to tell from a scan. The person who did that on this Posey was probably not doing it to fake people out, but aesthetically trying to make the item look more like a 3X5 (which some people really get into). Who knows, but 100% this is an authentic signature clipped from one of the Homestead diplomas and then the rest of the ink was sanded away.

Rhys

Can you reveal the name of the person who was doing this to the photos?
Is it someone we know?

[prewarsports]

I should have said "appears to be 100% authentic" as you are correct, if it is a copy. I was referencing the signature appearance (whether its real or not) but of course if it is a copy that is a whole other can of worms. The paper appears to be old and the signature appears to be consistent with other examples so I am sure its real unless of course it a copy of a real one.


Rhys

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I should have said "appears to be 100% authentic" as you are correct, if it is a copy. I was referencing the signature appearance (whether its real or not) but of course if it is a copy that is a whole other can of worms. The paper appears to be old and the signature appears to be consistent with other examples so I am sure its real unless of course it a copy of a real one.


Rhys

Yes the paper appears old but I don't have to tell you how easy it is to get old paper (ask former dealer Bill Linehan how easy it is. He pleaded guilty after he was caught removing end papers from library books right inside the library). If you are not familiar with his story I found this on the internet.

"CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - An autograph dealer has pleaded guilty to ripping the front and back pages out of 300 Concord Library books. William Linehan, 57, pleaded guilty to criminal mischief Tuesday and agreed to pay a fine of $1,200 and restitution to the library. Linehan says he doesn't know why he did it. "I don't really know. It was just a stupid thing. I think it was the risk which was a kick," he said. "I've never done anything like this before." But police and prosecutors have a different theory. The pages Linehan ripped from the books were blank and authentically aged - perfect canvasses for forged autographs. "Linehan needed paper with a date from a particular era," Assistant City Prosecutor John Draghi argued in Concord District Court. Linehan, a dealer in historic autographs for the past 15 years, denied he used the stolen pages for forgeries. "I can see why they're saying it. All I can do is deny it," he said. He said he has sold 2,000 autographs in the past five years; only 15 were questioned, and he took them all back, no questions asked. However, the Universal Autograph Collectors Club removed him as regional director last summer and then expelled him after a customer made an ethics complaint against him. Bob Erickson, the club president, said Linehan promised another member an autograph of the late rock star Jim Morrison that had been displayed in a catalogue. But the customer complained the autograph he received did not match the one in the catalogue. Linehan did not respond to a letter from the ethics committee concerning its investigation, so he was expelled, Erickson said. "It is very important that when you are a member of this club that you abide by the ethics board's decisions," Erickson said. Linehan claims the customer simply didn't like the condition of the autograph. He also said he was expelled based on his failure to answer the ethics committee, not on the merits of the complaint. Still, Linehan said he will scale back his autograph business and look for another line of work. "Now with more and more people in (autograph collecting), it's getting harder and harder to make a living," he said. "It's much more of a hassle and harder to get material." "

[Klrdds]

Not sure if this makes a difference, but I notice that on the Clean Sweep item the signature line is a series of black dots , and on the diplomas that I could find ( all on Hunt Auctions website ) all the signature lines were a solid black line. If this were a laser copy of a diploma wouldn't the signature line on the Clean Sweep item be an exact copy of the diploma's solid signature line, not a series of dots?

[RichardSimon]

If the item has been sandpapered wouldn't the COA state that?
When they find traced signatures or signs of removal on a signed baseball that is always stated in the COA.
Anybody know Clean Sweep well enough to ask for a copy of the COA?

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If the item has been sandpapered wouldn't the COA state that?
When they find traced signatures or signs of removal on a signed baseball that is always stated in the COA.
Anybody know Clean Sweep well enough to ask for a copy of the COA?

I think this is a very valid question. If my thought about the other ink being erased around the sig, it should be able to be identified when you examine it in hand and should be noted.

[daves_resale_shop]

Is it best practice for an authenticators to put every item under a blacklight? I guess it would make sense if there were evidence of tracing, ink added or even very light autos... But on the other hand, I could see this slowing down a process...

Kind of ot: but is there a best practice, or statement if work that tpa's typically try to follow?


Going along with Rhys' theory, my gut says this one has had ink removed for aesthetic purposes...but who knows until you touch it?

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

If the item has been sandpapered wouldn't the COA state that?
When they find traced signatures or signs of removal on a signed baseball that is always stated in the COA.
Anybody know Clean Sweep well enough to ask for a copy of the COA?