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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are right - by definition, coin tosses DO involve luck; however, given that Green Bay had stopped Seattle for 57:51 of regulation, you would think that Seattle's decision to receive was stupid. You would think that Green Bay could easily stop them and then their star, Aaron Rodgers, could easily drive for at least a field goal - game over. Luck?

The only Luck I know of was in New England yesterday, not in Seattle.

No luck? So you're saying that 2 point conversion happened exactly as it was designed?

Come one, Scott. The onsides kick and 2 point conversion were luck. If either of those goes GBs way, then we're not even having this discussion.

Let me repeat, if Seattle plays the way they did yesterday against NE, they will get a beatdown!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

No luck? So you're saying that 2 point conversion happened exactly as it was designed?

Come one, Scott. The onsides kick and 2 point conversion were luck. If either of those goes GBs way, then we're not even having this discussion.

Let me repeat, if Seattle plays the way they did yesterday against NE, they will get a beatdown!

The fact that it didn't go exactly as planned is far different from "luck". Wilson scrambled, eluded the defense, the receive got open, Wilson hit him. That's football. Same for the onside kick - 16% chance of success, but not luck. The kick was executed perfectly, and as I stated earlier, Bostick did not block, but instead attempted to catch a ball when it wasn't his assignment to do so. No luck there, just perfect execution by one team and poor execution by the other.

The only luck was the coin toss, which I've already discussed.

So many things had to go right for Seattle and wrong for Green Bay, in order for things to turn out the way they did. And it all happened - statistically improbable, but not luck. I'm as amazed as anyone, but I would never say "we got lucky".

[Runscott]

David, you and Bill have gotten me thinking about 'luck' a bit more. Trying to think of times when I felt like my team got gyp'd because of 'bad luck', I really can't come up with anything. But here are some sports plays that I really do think involved luck:

• the immaculate reception
• Doug Flutie's hail mary pass
• Moises Alou getting robbed by a fan
• any play involving instant replay that was ruled incorrectly after review (or correctly) - the luck being the official drawn for the game to make such decisions
• all coin tosses
• Mickey Mantle twisting his ankle on a sprinkler head
• I would almost say the Christian Laetner's bucket, but he did have to throw it in the correct direction.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

[*]Moises Alou getting robbed by a fan

Moises Alou has admitted in the past that he couldn't have caught the ball anyway:

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/news/article/2484828/


Of course, once he got static for that admission, he recanted. Deep down inside, I think he knows he wouldn't have caught it.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Moises Alou has admitted in the past that he couldn't have caught the ball anyway:

http://m.cubs.mlb.com/news/article/2484828/


Of course, once he got static for that admission, he recanted. Deep down inside, I think he knows he wouldn't have caught it.

That is well-known. The point is that at the time the Cubs thought he could have, which resulted in them falling to pieces.

[clydepepper]

Are we sure that Moises didn't just say that to get Bartman would relax and come out of hiding so he could take a shot at him?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

The fact that it didn't go exactly as planned is far different from "luck". Wilson scrambled, eluded the defense, the receive got open, Wilson hit him. That's football.

"It didn't go exactly as planned"

Scott, that is the VERY definition of luck.

Luck: noun - \ˈlək\ - the accidental way things happen without being planned.

Merriam-Webster's online Dictionary

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luck

[vintagetoppsguy]

Here's another definiton of luck accroding to the same source...

Luck: "success in doing or getting something"

Sounds like that onside kick, huh? Was that skill? No, it was luck.

Fate, Luck, let's forego the metaphysical debate;

Forget Smells Like Teen Spirit, Seattle Smelled Like Hot Garbage for three and a half quarters. I did not recognize that team at all.

The Pats/Hawks Super Bowl will be very competitive, GO HAWKS!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Here's another definiton of luck accroding to the same source...

Luck: "success in doing or getting something"

Sounds like that onside kick, huh? Was that skill? No, it was luck.

According to that definition, every properly executed play during any game is 'luck'

(I don't like that definition); however, I've been re-watching the highlites all morning, and I am inclined to now agree with you that the 2-point conversion had a lot of luck to it - it just looked lucky. The problem with calling it 'luck' is that it was perfectly thrown to the intended receiver, and the defense let him get open. Same for the onside kick - it was kind of lucky that Bostick abandoned his blocking role, as the guy who was intended to catch the ball was standing there with his hands ready to make the play. And of course, the lucky bounce off Bostick and to the Seattle player - that is definitely luck, but it's what has to happen on any on-side kick.