Pet Peeve: Dealers who pull out Beckett at a card show? Opinions wanted!

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by glynparson

people quoting VCP just as annoying as Beckett. Sometimes the VCP data is old when you actually look at it. Sometimes cards are dogs for the grade and the other example is high end. I judge each card on its own merits and what i value it at not what others tell me too value it. This (VCP) may work for very common items but it is not always as relevant as its proponents make it out to be.

I can see how that would get annoying Glyn. However, quoting NM Beckett prices for all your cards should have went out with dial-up internet!! This is 2015 people! VCP, while annoying in the way you describe, is at least closer to reality than Beckett.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I can see how that would get annoying Glyn. However, quoting NM Beckett prices for all your cards should have went out with dial-up internet!! This is 2015 people! VCP, while annoying in the way you describe, is at least closer to reality than Beckett.

A couple years ago Beckett put out a price guide that had past sales in it as well as values of vintage. I think it was mainly vintage, or had a lot of vintage in it. I could barely find a price in the pre-war that was off at all. It was very accurate. Again, this was only on their pre-war cards. I don't know about others as I didn't look. They were spot on for what I saw though. And I am empathetic of how the members in this thread are not happy with dealers quoting a high book price, on more well loved cards, that aren't close to the condition being quoted.

[Rich Klein]

That is the graded card price guide and in reality, although it would be too time consuming, all those prices should move over to the regular price guides

[timzcardz]

With all the time that some dealers spend sitting, ignoring potential customers, I find that if they haven't priced stuff out already and have to go to the book, then my time is probably being wasted. It seems like bad business for me to have to expect customers to wait while you look up a price for something, especially when many times dealers give the impression that you are bothering them by asking because you want to spend money.


Here is an experience that I posted on another forum 5 years ago . . .

I took my son to a card show last weekend, and got a dealer mad at me.

I asked about a 1997 Pinnacle Artist Proof Derek Jeter card that he had in his case. Now this guy has had this in his case for at least the last two years. I've seen it many times before, but never asked him about it because he was protecting so much in the case that I figured he thought it was worth more than it was.

So the guy takes it out and starts going on about how much the card used to book for, and turns it over and he has a sticker on the back of it that says $125, and that is crossed out and below it is $60. He says "See that 's what it used to book for and it came down and probably books for less yet now. Let me look it up."

So I stand there waiting while this guy finds his book, then starts looking, and turning through pages of Beckett, and finally finds it and says "It says 15 times the base card, so it books for $60. I'll take $35 for it."

So I just stood there waiting on him to have him tell me I can have it for 60% of book value. Now the cards in this set can be had for about 25% of book value, but it is Jeter, so he would command a premium and should be able to be had for 1/3 of book. So I tell him, "I'm not interested at $35, but I would be interested at $20."

This lazy ass whose just been sitting behind his table for the last half hour selling absolutely nothing, doesn't say a word. He just puts the card back in the case, closes it, and turns away. I'm thinking to myself WTF? He can't even have the decency to tell me that he won't sell it for that?

So I proceed to another set of tables with a guy that I often buy wax from, and I hear this guy behind telling someone, "I'm really biting my tongue right now" and complaining about me wasting HIS time."

Well that won't happen again, because I will NEVER do business with him.

[bobbyw8469]

Thank you for sharing that story. Well, after the dust has settled at the card show in Raleigh and the dealer totally being rude to me, I wound up buying some stuff from another dealer. This guy (the one I purchased from) had NO graded cards - 100% unslabbed stuff. But every one of his cards had a price on it, so we had a starting point of where to work on.

If the dealer who had been the inspiration behind this post had just said, "This card should not be considered a common - I can't sell it for $2". However, to pull out a Beckett and quote me $80 after I was expecting $2 - he can kiss my ass and I will NEVER buy anything from him.".

It is not like the card is super rare. I have it two times already, although I did have to buy larger lots to get it, but my dollar cost average on the card was below $2, I'm sure. If I could sell my two for $80 or so, then that would be stupendous!

[jbsports33]

With so many cards in our cases, we try to give a price before digging in the book - but sometimes you just need to for new items that have not been priced yet. I agree dealers should have a plan before going into a show on prices
good post!

Jimmy

[SAllen2556]

I dunno, I figure if they're quoting Beckett, they're either too out of touch or too lazy to actually know what the card is selling for in the real world - which today is online. Now I don't imagine even the most dedicated dealer is up on the value of every single one of his cards, but aren't there are cards actually undervalued in the Beckett guide? Using Beckett to price a card is like using Poor Richard's Almanac to predict the weather. Get with the times man!

I was putting together a raw nm '69 Topps set last year and a guy had some absolutely beautiful raw cards. He quoted 1/2 book value if I was buying a bunch - even for cards that were nearly impossible to find raw on ebay in nm condition at a reasonable price - like the Bobby Cox rookie. I just about cleaned him out - and I was thrilled!

I would think you guys who flip cards and/or are full-time dealers would love a guy who quotes Beckett, especially because you guys have the knowledge of what the card is actually worth! What surprises me at the card show I semi-regularly attend is that NONE of these dealers use laptops to look up prices, but they ALL have the latest Beckett.

But I agree that the biggest issue at a show is dealers who overrate, and thus overprice, the condition of their cards. I always just smile and say "Yep, that's a fair price, I'm sure you'll get it". And then I walk away.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

I dunno, I figure if they're quoting Beckett, they're either too out of touch or too lazy to actually know what the card is selling for in the real world - which today is online. Now I don't imagine even the most dedicated dealer is up on the value of every single one of his cards, but aren't there are cards actually undervalued in the Beckett guide? Using Beckett to price a card is like using Poor Richard's Almanac to predict the weather. Get with the times man!

I was putting together a raw nm '69 Topps set last year and a guy had some absolutely beautiful raw cards. He quoted 1/2 book value if I was buying a bunch - even for cards that were nearly impossible to find raw on ebay in nm condition at a reasonable price - like the Bobby Cox rookie. I just about cleaned him out - and I was thrilled!

I would think you guys who flip cards and/or are full-time dealers would love a guy who quotes Beckett, especially because you guys have the knowledge of what the card is actually worth! What surprises me at the card show I semi-regularly attend is that NONE of these dealers use laptops to look up prices, but they ALL have the latest Beckett.

But I agree that the biggest issue at a show is dealers who overrate, and thus overprice, the condition of their cards. I always just smile and say "Yep, that's a fair price, I'm sure you'll get it". And then I walk away.

in my specific example, on a brand-new product, that Beckett price is reasonably accurate. Also, that same collector I mentioned at the same show tried to negotiate another dealer's Bo Jackson signed card to $100 from the $175 the dealer had marked which was an EBay based price because he does not use Beckett.

I tend to agree with Don, sometimes you hold your tounge when the real thought in your brain is something else.

[Rich Klein]

"Here is an experience that I posted on another forum 5 years ago . . .

I took my son to a card show last weekend, and got a dealer mad at me.

I asked about a 1997 Pinnacle Artist Proof Derek Jeter card that he had in his case. Now this guy has had this in his case for at least the last two years. I've seen it many times before, but never asked him about it because he was protecting so much in the case that I figured he thought it was worth more than it was.

So the guy takes it out and starts going on about how much the card used to book for, and turns it over and he has a sticker on the back of it that says $125, and that is crossed out and below it is $60. He says "See that 's what it used to book for and it came down and probably books for less yet now. Let me look it up."

So I stand there waiting while this guy finds his book, then starts looking, and turning through pages of Beckett, and finally finds it and says "It says 15 times the base card, so it books for $60. I'll take $35 for it."

So I just stood there waiting on him to have him tell me I can have it for 60% of book value. Now the cards in this set can be had for about 25% of book value, but it is Jeter, so he would command a premium and should be able to be had for 1/3 of book. So I tell him, "I'm not interested at $35, but I would be interested at $20."

This lazy ass whose just been sitting behind his table for the last half hour selling absolutely nothing, doesn't say a word. He just puts the card back in the case, closes it, and turns away. I'm thinking to myself WTF? He can't even have the decency to tell me that he won't sell it for that?

So I proceed to another set of tables with a guy that I often buy wax from, and I hear this guy behind telling someone, "I'm really biting my tongue right now" and complaining about me wasting HIS time."

Well that won't happen again, because I will NEVER do business with him. "


Honestly, as a dealer, I have done the same thing to customers who frustrate me.

I had a pretty new card recently at a show, marked it at $50, customer comes up and asks where I got my prices from. I explained hi book was $60, so I marked it at $50.

Next words out of his mouth was, I'll give you $25 for that.

Card went back to where it was from (and was later sold the same day for $45)

Sometimes, it is how you deliver the counter-offer. Frankly as a dealer, if I had a Jeter card such as that -- even if I had it for a while. I'd probably take $30 if I said I'd take $35 but the $20 offer would be a non-starter for me.

MOO

Rich

[Donscards]

I have all my cards marked in my showcases when selling---and they are fair prices---what gets to me, are the low price offers of nice cards and also customers who dont go to beckett price guide but in todays market, they all go to their ipod etc. And as for dealers, some price their cards very high and deal from there and it hurts guys who price their cards right and then collectors want to low ball them. I love shows but usually once or twice a show, I have to hold my tongue.

[Leon]

Two nationals ago I had a guy come up to my table and ask about a T213-2 common I had, in a 5 holder. We spoke a little...haggled a little.....then he looks up that card on VCP, finds where I exactly bought it....and pays my small mark up. I almost raised the price on him. ....My markup was around 8%-10% and I had told him that...but he had to verify it I guess. He bought the card so what the heck. Btw, ALL of my cards in my cases are always marked with prices on the FRONT of them. I understand pricing them on the back to get folks to ask and all, but to me, just put the darned price on the FRONT of the card and go from there. I have enough people to talk to already.

[Republicaninmass]

A Bigger pet peeve is dealers who dont price anything.

It only holds up the process having to stop and look up/make up prices when it is busy. Time is money and dealers not pricing just waste both of ours

[packs]

I appreciate fully prices on the front and no salesmanship. If I'm interested in the card, I already know what it is. Just let me think it over. My favorite dealers are the guys who want to talk about my interests, not try to upsell me on a card.

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

Honestly, as a dealer, I have done the same thing to customers who frustrate me.

I had a pretty new card recently at a show, marked it at $50, customer comes up and asks where I got my prices from. I explained hi book was $60, so I marked it at $50.

Next words out of his mouth was, I'll give you $25 for that.

Card went back to where it was from (and was later sold the same day for $45)

Sometimes, it is how you deliver the counter-offer. Frankly as a dealer, if I had a Jeter card such as that -- even if I had it for a while. I'd probably take $30 if I said I'd take $35 but the $20 offer would be a non-starter for me.

MOO

Rich

Rich, So are you saying that you sometimes just completely ignore a potential customer rather than politely explain that you can't sell at the counteroffer?

I ask, simply because I have had long relationships buying from dealers that have started out with an initial respectful non-deal.


WRT to the Jeter card in my story, I did end up later buying it elsewhere for less than the $20 I had offered in the story, so my counter couldn't have been completely out of line.

[Rich Klein]

Originally Posted by timzcardz

Rich, So are you saying that you sometimes just completely ignore a potential customer rather than politely explain that you can't sell at the counteroffer?

I ask, simply because I have had long relationships buying from dealers that have started out with an initial respectful non-deal.


WRT to the Jeter card in my story, I did end up later buying it elsewhere for less than the $20 I had offered in the story, so my counter couldn't have been completely out of line.

In that case, I was not interested in discussing an half off offer to start, and based on the later conversation about Bo Jackson card I heard, that instinct was correct. Sometimes, you just know. Hard to explain, but after 30+ years in this hobby/business, I had him instinctively figured out and correctly so. I hope he gets plenty of deals his way, just not with me.

Funny thing about him, he attends any show with free admission but I have never seen him at a show which costs even a $1 to enter. I don't know for sure but I wonder if he is the same person who looked through my cards once, asked if I had wiggle room on a $30 and promptly offered $10. In that case, I could not even hold back and said, Wiggle room sure but not "bend over" room.

Same show as that previous, I carry a box of vintage FB mainly (a few BK and Hockey mixed in) and a dealer asked for a price on the box. I went through my listed price on just the cards I'm asking $10 and up -- came up with like $1800, offered him the box for $725 *and would have even tossed in the modern box of FB/BK/Hk I carry* tried to explain one of the key cards -- and the dealer actually said he was expecting something an offer to him like $50 for the box. I just put him as another dealer not to do business with in the future

Sometimes it's the delivery of the offer or more to it. If you have a good relationship with a dealer, they might give you better deals based on long-term relationships.

[danmckee]

I price my stuff on back because I like to see exactly which cards people are looking at. It helps me determine what to keep in my inventory and what to maybe send to an auction house to get rid of.