Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

It may surprise you, but there are a fair number of guys on this forum that agree with me.

I have yet to hear any logical arguments that disproves my case for these 1910 " COUPON " cards being a part of the T206 family.

The old bromide....."because Burdick says so".....just aint good enough.

Sean.....if it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it's a T206


TED Z
.

Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

This sounds like every election held in America. And considering how well our elected government is working, you're right: a vote would be meaningless.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

...
P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

That logic makes perfect sense.

Only the informed should be allowed to vote, and why not take it a step further and allow only the single MOST informed person to vote?

Ted, I agree with your logic, and I'll choose Burdick - I think he's as good a choice as any. If I were part of the pitchfork-carrying crowd storming the castle, I would be demanding that Burdick be my T206 dictator and do all of my thinking for me.

…or it could be Ted, it doesn't matter.

[tedzan]

We live in a " 1/3 world " ............

For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.


Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.


Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.



TED Z
.

[asoriano]

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Really rare and a great card......thanks for posting it.



TED Z
.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tedzan

We live in a " 1/3 world "......

For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.


Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.


Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.



TED Z
.

And Ted, a big part of our hobby is categorizing things. Even as children, most of us piled up our cards by team, by position, by stats or even combined cards from different years. So I would never minimize the importance of deciding where the Coupons should be included.

In fact, I think I agreed with you on this, but having spoken with other forum members about this subject in depth, I think this topic is much like sheet-size - we'll never really know, so any well-thought-out theory defense is worth listening to, and certainly shouldn't cause anything more than heated discussion.

[mrvster]

That Ames Is INSANE!!

collectors haven't grasped yet the importance of those sweet cap 350-460 factory 30 NO OVERSTAMP!! that back is not possible with that player factory issued!! you got yours just in time......Jim R always stated how important and cool those y/b's sc 460's are.....

PLEASE POST THE IMPOSSIBLE COMBINATION BACK!

Once Chris B posts what we know so far, the will be highly sought after....



hint.....hint..............

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mrvster

That Ames Is INSANE!!

collectors haven't grasped yet the importance of those sweet cap 350-460 factory 30 NO OVERSTAMP!! that back is not possible with that player factory issued!! you got yours just in time......Jim R always stated how important and cool those y/b's sc 460's are.....

PLEASE POST THE IMPOSSIBLE COMBINATION BACK!

Once Chris B posts what we know so far, the will be highly sought after....



hint.....hint..............

Johnny, I think the T206 scrap collectors DO realize the "importance" of these, but I think getting other card collectors to feel the same way is not only going to be difficult, but I don't think you and the other scrap collectors should really want that.

The 'problem' (from your point of view, not mine) is that the T206 issue is the only one where print scraps are considered worth multi-thousands of dollars. And that value is placed by you guys, by bidding against each other. The rest of the collecting world respects the market values that you are establishing and will certainly pay high prices if they think they can re-sell them to you later for a profit, but as far as "importance"…not so much.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.


Take care, good buddy.


TED Z
.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.


Take care, good buddy.


TED Z
.

Thanks Ted - . I would love to see the "Coupon" carton that you mentioned. In reading your reply, I am not sure what differentiates my carton and the one one you are talking about... (I have no real opinion either way and certainly not sure of the time frame of this Carton I own, but know its pretty old) Perhaps, the 1910 Carton says... "Coupon Mild" and mine says Coupon Cigarettes??

[tedzan]

I think the tell-tale clue here is the Liggett & Myers label.

I think that L & M manufactured the COUPON brand after ATC's divestiture (circa 1911- 1912).

The 1910 COUPON was strictly an ATC brand.

I will search for a pix of the " COUPON " Cigarettes carton.


TED Z
.

[mrvster]

beauty of an Ellam

lmk if you ever want to trade

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I think the tell-tale clue here is the Liggett & Myers label.

I think that L & M manufactured the COUPON brand after ATC's divestiture (circa 1911- 1912).

The 1910 COUPON was strictly an ATC brand.

I will search for a pix of the " COUPON " Cigarettes carton.


TED Z
.

Ted - That makes some sense. I will take this to email with you, so this thread doesn't get too sidetracked... Is Liggett & Myers on the reverse of any other brands besides 1914 Victory tobacco cards ?

[tedzan]

.................................................. 1-of-8 .................................................. .................................. 1-of-2

.


T-Rex TED
.

[mrvster]

Scrap off the chain

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Scrap off the chain

For Ted's benefit, I'll translate:

"That Lundgren scrap is really, really nice!!"

I'm just a guy that relates to all generations!

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

Whoops... Here's another one more rare than Doyle...