Black Sox Memorabilia Up For Auction

[David Atkatz]

Joe Jackson could write his name--in cursive--during his ML playing career. There are many examples--including legal documents.

I may have been a bit too hasty calling the ball "garbage." That being said, though, I have extremely strong reservations about the ball's authenticity. How many times the ball has been auctioned previously does not strike me as relevant.

[Econteachert205]

It is beyond my abilities to authenticate this piece, so I defer. In my opinion given the amount it would sell for it is not an attractive piece. All I can think about is the opportunity cost of what could be bought instead. Still an ultra tough and cool piece, just not my cup of tea.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Joe Jackson could write his name--in cursive--during his ML playing career. There are many examples--including legal documents.

Here are five from the PSA site. Authenticating a Jackson signature is going to be difficult. With super-rare ones like this, I try to find an example that the one in question might have been copied from - forgers don't guess if it's avoidable. Given that Jackson didn't sign much, the odds of him doing a group of letters exactly alike, more than once, seems very low.

[David Atkatz]

Actually Scott, in the examples you post, his letter formations are quite consistent. (Including the Goldin ball.)

[Econteachert205]

Scott nice job putting those together. The example underneath the goldin ball is super close in style.

[Klrdds]

After reading the posts on here I would like to offer my opinion based on the fact that I am probably one of a few Net 54 members, as well as one of a few collectors to actually own an authentic Joe Jackson signed item. I own his 1948 signed South Carolina driver's license. Before buying that item in 1998 at Sotheby's I researched his signature and since then have researched it as much as I can. Buying a Joe Jackson signed legal document is one thing but buying a baseball is another since there are so few available , and many are forgeries. It is well known that Joe had a hard time signing his name, especially if his wife Katherine was not around because she would hold a card with his name written on it for him to copy as he wrote. If she was not around he would have to do it from memory which was very hard and embarrassing for him. The JOE was the easy part because it was 3 " loopy " letters. The JACKSON became trickier because it was longer with different style of letter formations. When he signed he would have inconsistent signature breaks in Jackson based on if he had his card guide or doing it from memory. That being the case his signatures are usually long and drawn out....look at how he uses space on the flat legal documents. Therefore I decided if I were to buy a Joe Jackson ball it would have to be signed on the sweet spot to allow for the length of his writing needs. I have never bought a ball at this point figuring 1 Joe Jackson signature is pretty fortunate to own. Now with this ball my only concern is that the Joe is the easiest part to forge, the Jackson is trickier. My point of reference is the "s" in Jackson. I have never seen a closed "s" in Jackson, and this ball has one. Also the "ck" transition in Jackson is different to me as well from what I normally see.
As I am no expert just a collector with an opinion I would only consider this ball if I could see it up really close to look for other markers that I use for his signatures. Otherwise I would be doubtful...again I did not say forgery just doubtful.
Sorry to be so verbose on this topic .

[shelly]

I noticed one other thing since Scott posted those pictures. If you notice all the j's slant to the right. On this ball it is to the left. I also agree all the signatures have an open s and this one is closed. Maybe I am nit picking but it is food for thought.
I respect Ken and I know that he would never try and sell anything that he believed not to be authentic. I just feel there really are some questions to be answered.
Like I said in the first post. I dont care if the tpa's said this was good or not.

[btcarfagno]

I recall reading an interview of someone who knew Jackson late in Jackson's life. The interviewee grew up in the town where Jackson had his liquor store and would speak with him often. He said that Jackson absolutely could draw his own name, and that he could easily tell the difference between when Jackson did it and when his wife did. There was no mention of Jackson needing to see his own signature in front of him in order to sign. Then again, this was the 1940's so perhaps by this time he was able to do it on his own?

Tom C

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Actually Scott, in the examples you post, his letter formations are quite consistent. (Including the Goldin ball.)

I agree - I was talking about exact groupings of letters, not consistent letter formations. That might sound like splitting hairs, but I've seen autographs where you could actually locate the specific physical signature example that the forger had used to create his copy.