The Scoundrel HOF

[slipk1068]

Charles Comiskey has to be a first ballot scoundrel. No way Cicotte should be nominated.

Cap Anson
Hal Chase
Kennesaw Mountain Landis

[bcbgcbrcb]

How about Mike Scott and his famous "cutter" from c1986?

[Section103]

Gaylord Perry. He cheated so much and just smiled about it that it became publicly acceptable.

[jdeptula]

Really? He didn't throw Series games for cash?

Not trying to be snarky, just curious of your reasoning.

Agree on Comisky. Should have probably had him after Gandil.

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Charles Comiskey has to be a first ballot scoundrel. No way Cicotte should be nominated.

[conor912]

Ty Cobb
Marvin Miller
Alex Rodriguez

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by jdeptula

Really? He didn't throw Series games for cash?

Not trying to be snarky, just curious of your reasoning.

Agree on Comiskey. Should have probably had him after Gandil.

I am not at all trying to be snarky either, but how is it possible to watch Eight Men Out and not view Cicotte as at least somewhat of a victim? The guy had a contract for a 10 grand bonus if he won 30 games. Comiskey ordered him benched after 29 games which prevented him from collecting that bonus which was a HUGE amount of money probably more than his yearly salary. And everyone was so Shocked when it happened.

Throwing games for money was not uncommon in a time when players were enslaved by The Reserve Clause. I am shocked that it wasn't a more common occurrence.

I would like to see Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, and Cicotte enshrined in Cooperstown.

[Econteachert205]

Sleepy bill burns

Ben chapman

Steve Howe

[bundy462]

Gandil for his "ringleader" role in the Black Sox debacle
Rose for the gambling
Selig because when there are too many players to name one specifically for PEDs, you have to look at the guy at the top

[Fred]

From the PED-o-files:

Bonds
ARod
Braun
Palmiero
Clemens

I respect McGwire because he didn't lie (until he got caught) about his PED use. Those other boneheads listed are just a bunch of talente schmucks, Bonds in more ways than just his PED use/denial. Sadly, Bonds would have been HOF material without the PEDs.

[ksabet]

Originally Posted by Fred

From the PED-o-files:

Sadly, Bonds would have been HOF material without the PEDs.

He is still HOF material.

[jdeptula]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

I am not at all trying to be snarky either, but how is it possible to watch Eight Men Out and not view Cicotte as at least somewhat of a victim? The guy had a contract for a 10 grand bonus if he won 30 games. Comiskey ordered him benched after 29 games which prevented him from collecting that bonus which was a HUGE amount of money probably more than his yearly salary. And everyone was so Shocked when it happened.

Throwing games for money was not uncommon in a time when players were enslaved by The Reserve Clause. I am shocked that it wasn't a more common occurrence.

I would like to see Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, and Cicotte enshrined in Cooperstown.

You make a valid point. It just seemed to me that Cicotte and Williams did most of the "heavy lifting", so to speak, when it came to throwing the games. You could leave out any of the other 6 guys and still lose 5 games. With those 2 playing their best, Chicago likely wins regardless.

I would also like to see Jackson in the Hof. Never really thought of Cicotte in that way, but I see where you're coming from.

[mattsey9]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

I am not at all trying to be snarky either, but how is it possible to watch Eight Men Out and not view Cicotte as at least somewhat of a victim? The guy had a contract for a 10 grand bonus if he won 30 games. Comiskey ordered him benched after 29 games which prevented him from collecting that bonus which was a HUGE amount of money probably more than his yearly salary. And everyone was so Shocked when it happened.

Throwing games for money was not uncommon in a time when players were enslaved by The Reserve Clause. I am shocked that it wasn't a more common occurrence.

I would like to see Joe Jackson, Buck Weaver, and Cicotte enshrined in Cooperstown.

Throwing games for money was unfortunately all too common in this era. However, current scholarship reveals that the Cicotte 10K bonus story we've all heard isn't based in fact. There was no clause in Cicotte's pact rewarding him for 30 wins, and it seems that the player himself begged off duty to return home to rest his weary arm.

In fact, Cheapskate Comiskey doubled the pay of Cicotte and Lefty Williams for 1920.

[sniffy5]

I don't think McGwire or Sosa are hof material. Without their shameless steroid use, and in Mcgwire's case, offensively shameless, when he hugs proudly hugs Maris' sons moments after stealing their father's well-earned legacy by so obviously cheating to attain that record, McGwire and Sosa are nothing special. I even think McGwire had a season hitting below the Mendoza line. Yeah, the hall is full of guys like that... But what I really wonder is how we would view Bonds and Clemens had they not been, and presumably still are, incredible a**holes. Clemens had an ongoing relationship with a 10th grade girl when he was a married man of 30. She has since committed suicide. How do you sleep at night Roger? I'm sure he sleeps very well, which tells us all we need to know about Roger Clemens. And if 1/10 of what "Game of Shadows" is true about Bonds, then he has a personality disorder that borders on psychotic. Yet, if those two dudes had happened to be nicer, humbler, more likable, I wonder if things would be different for them going forward..??

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by mattsey9

Throwing games for money was unfortunately all too common in this era. However, current scholarship reveals that the Cicotte 10K bonus story we've all heard isn't based in fact. There was no clause in Cicotte's pact rewarding him for 30 wins, and it seems that the player himself begged off duty to return home to rest his weary arm.

In fact, Cheapskate Comiskey doubled the pay of Cicotte and Lefty Williams for 1920.

Not to mention Cicotte had two shots at #30 and blew both.

[Tabe]

I wonder how many of Cobb's nominations are based on the false stories made up by Al Stump?

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Tabe

I wonder how many of Cobb's nominations are based on the false stories made up by Al Stump?

LOL, I wonder how many really bad true stories Stump didn't tell.