How do I retract a bid on Ebay?

[Runscott]

Dave, it is about the agreement with the seller. If the seller is okay with him appearing to be a shill, why do you personally care?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Dave, it is about the agreement with the seller. If the seller is okay with him appearing to be a shill, why do you personally care?

You think he has 93 bid retractions with a single seller he had a conversation with?

I didn't see him mentioning a conversation or an agreement was made with ANY seller he made a retraction on. Just that they were lower end items, they didn't involve baseball, and thus it didn't matter that he pulled his bid on those auctions.

As long as he wasn't affecting the higher end baseball market, it was ok in his mind.

......on top of that, there's enough paranoid bidders that Ebay has helped cultivate with their practices, that every time Phil shows up as an underbidder on a "higher end baseball" auction, and the other bidders do a simple click of the mouse, they see the guy they are bidding against has more retractions then they have won items on his record. Generally they either run to NET54 and wonder out loud if the guy they are bidding against is a shill (10 other guys jump on the bandwagon and say they will never do business with this seller again), or they don't say a word, and they temper their bidding accordingly.

It's not just this board either. I've ventured on Ebay buyer boards on occasion and they are littered with threads of people asking "Have I just been shilled". Sometimes they were shilled, but 90% of the time I believe it's a situation with a bidder like this in the mix..........but most don't want to hear that, usually it's the seller that gets demonized in the process, not the ones interfering with the auction.

Right now he has bid on 11 items in the last 30 days, he has 5 bid retractions in that same amount of time.

He has 93 retractions in the last 180 days. 93. That's not a "whoopsie". If he has the blessings of other sellers because of this, he's either building up his retractions, to scare other bidders away on the items he REALLY wants, or he's just inconvenienced 93 others sets of sellers and bidders on items he DIDN'T really want.

I really have a hard time believing there's some benevolent reason for this.

I personally care, because this type of bidding has become epidemic on the site. It affects the entire realm of collectibles and it affects bidder confidence in general.

I've spoken to more then one collector over the years who say they don't bid on Ebay anymore because of the shenanigans that they think go on there. Whether their fears are founded or unfounded doesn't really matter. The perception is there.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

You think he has 93 bid retractions with a single seller he had a conversation with?

I didn't see him mentioning a conversation or an agreement was made with ANY seller he made a retraction on. Just that they were lower end items, they didn't involve baseball, and thus it didn't matter that he pulled his bid on those auctions.

As long as he wasn't affecting the higher end baseball market, it was ok in his mind.

......on top of that, there's enough paranoid bidders that Ebay has helped cultivate with their practices, that every time Phil shows up as an underbidder on a "higher end baseball" auction, and the other bidders do a simple click of the mouse, they see the guy they are bidding against has more retractions then they have won items on his record. Generally they either run to NET54 and wonder out loud if the guy they are bidding against is a shill (10 other guys jump on the bandwagon and say they will never do business with this seller again), or they don't say a word, and they temper their bidding accordingly.

It's not just this board either. I've ventured on Ebay buyer boards on occasion and they are littered with threads of people asking "Have I just been shilled". Sometimes they were shilled, but 90% of the time I believe it's a situation with a bidder like this in the mix..........but most don't want to hear that, usually it's the seller that gets demonized in the process, not the ones interfering with the auction.

Right now he has bid on 11 items in the last 30 days, he has 5 bid retractions in that same amount of time.

He has 93 retractions in the last 180 days. 93. That's not a "whoopsie". If he has the blessings of other sellers because of this, he's either building up his retractions, to scare other bidders away on the items he REALLY wants, or he's just inconvenienced 93 others sets of sellers and bidders on items he DIDN'T really want.

I really have a hard time believing there's some benevolent reason for this.

I personally care, because this type of bidding has become epidemic on the site. It affects the entire realm of collectibles and it affects bidder confidence in general.

I've spoken to more then one collector over the years who say they don't bid on Ebay anymore because of the shenanigans that they think go on there. Whether their fears are founded or unfounded doesn't really matter. The perception is there.

Well said. I am a small seller on Ebay. Not even a drop in the bucket compared to Probstein and PWCC. However, I do have one thing in common with those other two guys. I like to run .99 cent auctions. Not many sellers run .99 cent auctions anymore. That being said, I have to work alot harder to protect my auctions than those other two guys. All is takes is one bad bidder to wipe me off the map.

Others might not agree with me, but that is why I work so hard to ensure my auctions are clean from that kind of stuff. So yes, I block bid retractors. Not the ones who it is a true mistake where they entered the wrong bid. However, that is very seldom the reason. The current policy is being abused. I have retractors who are the high bidders, then three-four days later, decide they no longer want the item. They falsely use the tired old "can't contact the seller", or "entered the wrong amount". Those guys get blocked.

[Runscott]

NM...can't believe I got sucked into this quagmire

[HRBAKER]

Unless it's a seller that I know well I don't assume that many of my ebay transactions are "arms-length." That's just ebay and the hobby. Frankly I've gotten to the point where I don't even look at other bidders and whether there are retractions, "0" feedback bidders, bidders with 90+% activity with this seller. That's just the stuff you can point to, who knows what else is going on.

Edit to Add: I am SURE there are many up and up sellers on EBAY but it is a minefield.

[earlywynnfan]

Scott, I completely agree with Dave here, and I'm surprised you don't see this as a problem. Shill bidding is one of the big reasons ebay is going downhill. I am astounded the forum has let someone with so many retractions slide.

Ken

[Runscott]

Ken, I was thinking entirely of it as a problem between Phil and the seller, and that any bidders would avoid the seller if they had a problem with it. Giving it more thought, there is the obvious problem (which was going right past me) of the winning bidders being shilled up by Phil. Phil was, in effect, acting as a shill for the seller, whether he intended it or not.

Sorry about that - oversight on my part, as I was trying to play devil's advocate for Phil.

[D. Bergin]

To try to be clear from my standpoint in as few words as possible.

I don't even see it as a shilling issue for the most part. To me it's a perception of shilling that is damaging, along with a strategic interference in auctions that more often then not, drive prices down, rather then up.

Shilling and bid retractions in the Ebay world, is a much different animal then those same concerns in the auction house world, IMO.

An auction house has one on one control of every aspect of their bidding experience. You decide whether they are trustworthy or not, based on their individual reputations.

Then I see broad statements about Ebay.........and "Ebay" is not trustworthy. I stay away from "Ebay", because of this experience and that experience with nameless bidder, seller, buyer, consignments house, etc......

It should be broken down into all the individual sellers on Ebay on a case by case basis, but a lot of collectors don't want to be hassled with that, so we all get painted with the same brush........and as a result business suffers.

The company Ebay itself is responsible for much of this. In their pursuit of buyers and bids, along with the illusion of now anonymous bidding, they have encouraged this behavior, when at one time it was penalized. Essentially telling bidders they can retract or cancel a transaction any time they want.

It's now up to individual sellers to police this behavior, but even those who do, are affected tremendously by those who don't. Whether it's to continue misguided shilling practices, or it's triggering the desperation train of thought that "any bid is a good bid"........if I let this guy f*#k with this auction, he might spend more money on my next auction.

It becomes just as maddening as my shoddy attempt to make my point in "as few words as possible".

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Then I see broad statements about Ebay.........and "Ebay" is not trustworthy. I stay away from "Ebay", because of this experience and that experience with nameless bidder, seller, buyer, consignments house, etc......

It should be broken down into all the individual sellers on Ebay on a case by case basis, but a lot of collectors don't want to be hassled with that, so we all get painted with the same brush........and as a result business suffers.

I see your point.

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

To try to be clear from my standpoint in as few words as possible.

I don't even see it as a shilling issue for the most part. To me it's a perception of shilling that is damaging, along with a strategic interference in auctions that more often then not, drive prices down, rather then up.

Shilling and bid retractions in the Ebay world, is a much different animal then those same concerns in the auction house world, IMO.

An auction house has one on one control of every aspect of their bidding experience. You decide whether they are trustworthy or not, based on their individual reputations.

Then I see broad statements about Ebay.........and "Ebay" is not trustworthy. I stay away from "Ebay", because of this experience and that experience with nameless bidder, seller, buyer, consignments house, etc......

It should be broken down into all the individual sellers on Ebay on a case by case basis, but a lot of collectors don't want to be hassled with that, so we all get painted with the same brush........and as a result business suffers.

The company Ebay itself is responsible for much of this. In their pursuit of buyers and bids, along with the illusion of now anonymous bidding, they have encouraged this behavior, when at one time it was penalized. Essentially telling bidders they can retract or cancel a transaction any time they want.

It's now up to individual sellers to police this behavior, but even those who do, are affected tremendously by those who don't. Whether it's to continue misguided shilling practices, or it's triggering the desperation train of thought that "any bid is a good bid"........if I let this guy f*#k with this auction, he might spend more money on my next auction.

It becomes just as maddening as my shoddy attempt to make my point in "as few words as possible".

I agree, I should have said perception of shilling, too. I had one buyer retract a bid for me earlier this year, (oops, last year!) and I got a little panicky. I watched him a while, and he never retracted it again, surely a harmless typo. But I almost wanted to send an email to the high bidder letting him know nothing evil was going on.