Opinions on this Babe Ruth auto

[w7imel]

Bernie your Ruth was not clubhouse! If it was JSA or PSA would have noticed! and on top of that Dave would have told you by now! Ruth clubhouses for companies like JSA and PSA are not hard to spot. What are you so hung up on this ball? Again it is not the only 29 yanks team ball in existance.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by w7imel

Bernie your Ruth was not clubhouse! If it was JSA or PSA would have noticed! and on top of that Dave would have told you by now! Ruth clubhouses for companies like JSA and PSA are not hard to spot. What are you so hung up on this ball? Again it is not the only 29 yanks team ball in existance.

Simple answer: I like it.
What I am describing is the process I used to get comfortable with it's authenticity. What I suggested was to compare these as they were very similar. I bought the ball to have in my collection, but also I study it and analyze it to get "dividends" out of the investment.

I still have not solved Koenig's sig. Both Gutierrez and JSA say it is there. I can not find it. I have enjoyed deciphering the other sigs, though

[w7imel]

Any other opinions on the Ruth ball in question? Would like to know what the more experienced thought of it.

[Runscott]

A few points:

• If it looks like a Ruth, then it will get a COA from both PSA and JSA. A good forger will be able to make it 'look' like Ruth's signature. So what is the point of sending it in, other than for re-sell?
• If it looks like a Ruth but is not, it is not 'clubhouse', it is a forgery. PSA and JSA both seem to be good at spotting Ruth clubhouse sigs, not so good with Mantle.
• If it is a bad forgery, PSA and/or JSA might catch it. If this is a forgery, it isn't a bad one, so expect it to pass both.
• To new guys: tone down your expectations of what "civilized" behavior is - this is the autograph sub-forum. There are no pedestals in here and some people don't wear their gloves.

I wouldn't buy this baseball - it doesn't have the characteristics I look for, and it has some of the ones I avoid, such as shellac and a bold signature that, to put diplomatically, certainly does not look rushed. That doesn't mean it isn't good.

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by Runscott;1359738[LIST

[*]If it looks like a Ruth, then it will get a COA from both PSA and JSA. A good forger will be able to make it 'look' like Ruth's signature. So what is the point of sending it in, other than for re-sell?[/LIST]

Ok, one point at a time:

So in essence, your conclusion is PSA and JSA are not able to screen out a good forgery (not the first time I hear this comment BTW, just re stating)

Having seen some TPA Ruth's which I would not be comfortable owning, I can not argue with the conclusion you reach

This forum can be a help to others if doubts exist. It remains to be seen how much more effective the forum's "forger filter" can be if it has go past PSA/JSA, but I have seen a PSA which the forum rejected with ease so it can work

[Pickles]

[QUOTE=Runscott;1359738]A few points:

• To new guys: tone down your expectations of what "civilized" behavior is - this is the autograph sub-forum. There are no pedestals in here and some people don't wear their gloves.

If you refer to my post (which I am sure you did) I can take it and deal with it, you and I can have an intelligent conversation and have done so, without having to get personal. I appreciate that

When someone gets a bit personal, and sarcastic, I find it appropriate to put them back in their place. I do not expect church like behavior here, but I think all readers benefit from some professionalism in the discussion. Agree with the no pedestals, will fight with no gloves. Personal attacks/innuendos not acceptable to me. Other than that, I'm good.

[David Atkatz]

Just to put the record straight, Bernie, nothing I said--absolutely nothing--was "personal." I simply--and sarcastically, because that's just me--questioned your autograph expertise, based on what you yourself previously posted.

And I still do. My PhD in physics has absolutely no bearing upon my autograph expertise--or lack thereof. Neither does your PhD. My considerable mathematical training and experience has no bearing--none whatever--upon my autograph expertise--or lack thereof. Neither does yours. And to imply that it does is wrong--at best.

if I do possess any special knowledge in this area--and I will let my colleagues be the judges--it has to do with the fact that I have been collecting historical autographs, and vintage Yankee autographs, since 1961. I have had scores of Ruths and Gehrigs pass through my hands, as the only way an academic physicist can afford this hobby is by dealing autographs as well. This is not to say that I haven't made mistakes--serious mistakes. I certainly have. But when I have, I believe I have learned from them.

And finally, I don't know where "my place" is, nor where it should be. But I do know that you haven't "put me back in it."

Best of luck with your collecting.

[Runscott]

Also Bernie, I have no desire whatsoever to alienate you. Some day when a rich relative passes and leaves you a nice inheritance, I'm hoping to sell you this at an inflated price:

[Pickles]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Just to put the record straight, Bernie, nothing I said--absolutely nothing--was "personal." I simply--and sarcastically, because that's just me--questioned your autograph expertise, based on what you yourself previously posted.

And I still do. My PhD in physics has absolutely no bearing upon my autograph expertise--or lack thereof. Neither does your PhD. My considerable mathematical training and experience has no bearing--none whatever--upon my autograph expertise--or lack thereof. Neither does yours. And to imply that it does is wrong--at best.

if I do possess any special knowledge in this area--and I will let my colleagues be the judges--it has to do with the fact that I have been collecting historical autographs, and vintage Yankee autographs, since 1961. I have had scores of Ruths and Gehrigs pass through my hands, as the only way an academic physicist can afford this hobby is by dealing autographs as well. This is not to say that I haven't made mistakes--serious mistakes. I certainly have. But when I have, I believe I have learned from them.

And finally, I don't know where "my place" is, nor where it should be. But I do know that you haven't "put me back in it."

Best of luck with your collecting.

Not sure you get it. I was comparing 2 autographs, one of which there is a preponderance of evidence it is legitimate. I identified similarities and differences. You challenged (and still do) my expertise. I am not an "expert" but I am capable of reaching my own conclusions. You felt the need to "attack" when reading a statement which was factual, not subjective, and, I took the action I thought was appropriate. I do not need to know your CV to respect your opinions, just want to be exposed to them. If you disagree with mine, challenge the point, not the person.