T206 Joe Doyle Variation

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Tao_Moko

This card w/ rare variation has been known for a long time so the fact that it appears to be scratched off doesn't give a high probability that it's the NAT'L version. That being said - soaking the back might uncover the subject #. According to Ted, that will help determine any possibility. Looks like some of the number may be visible.

Further examination of the Piedmont back is not necessary. The only Piedmont back printed on the Joe Doyle cards is the 350 Series version.

The front caption should be examined under high magnification to see if there are any remnants of the Nat'L lettering.


TED Z
.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Further examination of the Piedmont back is not necessary. The only Piedmont back printed on the Joe Doyle cards is the 350 Series version.

The front caption should be examined under high magnification to see if there are any remnants of the Nat'L lettering.


TED Z
.

I get what you're saying Ted: the Doyle, with or without the Nat'l, only comes with a Piedmont 350, not a Piedmont 150 or 460. So this card must have a 350 back. We can only determine more by looking at the caption.

[LuckyLarry]

Thanks for the replies. With the PIEDMONT 350 back I know the odds of it being a "Doyle N.Y. NAT'L" have improved from being a ba-zillion to one odds down to a million to one odds But under my magnifying glass there appears to be the remnants of additional letters……..
I've soaked plenty of cards before, but I won't put this one in my sink because I would be afraid of removing whats left of what appears to me to be scratched off lettering.
Heres a possible theory: Maybe some ten year old back in 1911 said "This isn't Larry Doyle who pitches for the NY NATL team" "It's Joe Doyle who pitches for the NY AMER team" and scratched of NATL! My 1950s and 1960s Topps sets have PLENTY of team and name changes scratched out in ink!
Ted you suggested I examine the card under magnification, if I took this card to a jewelry store could they look at it for me using a loupe, or do I need to put it under a microscope?
Also if this IS a one in a million card (and I really dought that it is)(but there is something there) wouldn't PSA or SGC grade it as the N.Y. NAT'L variation in poor condition?
Larry

[Tao_Moko]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

Thanks for the replies. With the PIEDMONT 350 back I know the odds of it being a "Doyle N.Y. NAT'L" have improved from being a ba-zillion to one odds down to a million to one odds But under my magnifying glass there appears to be the remnants of additional letters……..
I've soaked plenty of cards before, but I won't put this one in my sink because I would be afraid of removing whats left of what appears to me to be scratched off lettering.
Heres a possible theory: Maybe some ten year old back in 1911 said "This isn't Larry Doyle who pitches for the NY NATL team" "It's Joe Doyle who pitches for the NY AMER team" and scratched of NATL! My 1950s and 1960s Topps sets have PLENTY of team and name changes scratched out in ink!
Ted you suggested I examine the card under magnification, if I took this card to a jewelry store could they look at it for me using a loupe, or do I need to put it under a microscope?
Also if this IS a one in a million card (and I really dought that it is)(but there is something there) wouldn't PSA or SGC grade it as the N.Y. NAT'L variation in poor condition?
Larry

I probably shouldn't chime in on what the tpg's will do, but I highly doubt they would grade it as a NAT'L. Your theory of the kid is awesome.............. Good luck to you and I hope you're able to find some tangible evidence on the card.

[tedzan]

I agree with what Eric just said regarding whether SGC or PSA would grade this card as a legitimate Joe Doyle Nat'L.

I have a legitimate rare T206 red HINDU card that has been laminated by someone. These TPG's refuse to grade it.

Look, the odds of this card being a true Doyle error card are greatly against it. Several years ago I was asked by SGC to render a 2nd opinion
on the authenticity of a new Joe Doyle Nat'L card. I verified it, and it is only the 8th confirmed example in the hobby.

I not trying to dash your hopes on the validity of this card. But yes, under high magnification you may see that there is remnants of lettering
indicative of the word Nat'L....that has you convinced. But then, you have to consider that many common Joe Doyle cards were counterfeited
with the Nat'L lettering. Good counterfeits that even fooled the TPG's who graded them.


TED Z
.

[Jobu]

I added some lines to the first image I posted - the ripped card and a Nat'l. Everything to the bottom/right of the red line appears to be paper loss, the scan isn't great so it is a little tough to tell if this line is perfectly accurate, but it looks close. I then put lines around the N in Nat'l and the upper and lower bounds of the caption on your card to make a box at the location of where the N ought to be on your card. It looks to me like my initial guess was right - there is an area that is not missing paper that should hold a large portion of the N but does not. If I am wrong and there is paper loss that I can't see in the image that occurs in the blue box then the possible top of the A comes back into play, but if all that paper is there I don't see how it could be a Nat'l.