Could Gehrig have handled the pressure?

[CMIZ5290]

Could similar comparisons be made between Maris and Mantle?

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Could similar comparisons be made between Maris and Mantle?

No.. We know Maris could not handle the spotlight.. Mantle could.. Sort of...

[clydepepper]

His Home/ Away splits say that he suffered without someone else in the spotlight:

1934 - Home - .414 ; Away- .311
1935 - Home - .281 ; Away- .372
1936- Home - .352 ; Away- .356

Perhaps the pitchers had more energy when he came up to bat in 1935- facing Ruth or DiMaggio then Gehrig was a daunting task.

Interesting how much it effected him at home.

In 1961, Maris hit .281 in 520 ABs batting third (assuming Mantle batted fourth in all these)
.186 in 70 ABs anywhere else in the order.

[the 'stache]

If you've ever watched the movie 61*, Raymond, you'd remember that the reporters were asking Maris before the start of the 1961 season if he was going after Babe Ruth's single season home run record. He was, of course, the MVP in 1960, but Maris had slumped terribly after the All Star Break.

Through July 10, 1960 (72 games), Maris hit .320 with 27 home runs and 69 RBI in 269 ABs. His OPS pre-break was 1.101. That's where he won the MVP.

The All Star Game was on July 11th.

The second half of the '60 season, July 15th to October 2nd, 64 games, Maris hit .239 with 12 home runs and 43 RBI. His OPS was .777.

I would assume that new Yankee Manager Ralph Houk put Maris lower in the lineup to start the '61 season in order to ease him into it, and try to take some of the pressure off of him, knowing full well the terrible slump he experienced in the second half of the 1960 season.

It didn't work. Though the stress would visibly take a toll on him, Maris performed best on the field when the pressure was on him.

Through May 17th, 29 games into the 1961 season, with Maris having batted 3rd, 5th and 7th in the lineup at different times, he was hitting a paltry .218 with 4 home runs and 13 RBI. He had a .703 OPS. When you combine that cold stretch with the end of his 1960 season, as of May 17th, his prior 93 games, a total of 331 at bats, Maris hit .233 with 16 home runs and 56 RBI. Hardly MVP-like.

But consider then what he did going forward. On May 19th, Roger Maris hit a home run in the first of three consecutive games. It was the start of what I consider the greatest power display in baseball history.

In his final 131 games, Roger Maris would be walked 74 times. He would hit .280. He would hit 14 doubles. Good numbers.

In 489 at bats from May 19th until the end of the 1961 season, Roger Maris would hit 57 home runs, and drive in 128 runs!

128 RBI in 132 games. And a home run every 8.58 at bats.

In 1927, when Babe Ruth hit 60 home runs, he did it in 540 at bats. That's a home run every 9 at bats. Maris beat that rate by nearly a half at bat.

But the most impressive statistic, if you ask me, about his entire 1961 season, is his strikeout rate. He struck out 67 times the entire season, against 61 home runs. But during "the run" I just mentioned, Maris hit 58 home runs, and only struck out 55 times.

Another remarkable statistic is his home run splits. He hit 30 home runs at Yankee Stadium in 1961. He hit 31 on the road.
His OPS at home was 1.001.
His road OPS was .986.
He struck out 31 times in 280 at bats at home.
He struck out 36 times in 319 at bats on the road.

Maris was consistent no matter where he played. He could hit the ball out of any park in the Majors, and he did.

[clydepepper]

Yes, I did see 61* and love it! I'm a Maris fan - especially after McGwire 'lied' to the family.

As much has Mantle suffered that year, one would think that he missed more than the 6 games he did.

In the six games with Mantle hitting behind him, Maris was 3-for-24 with 2 solo shots...not really enough games to say anything definitively - a much more telling statistic is that Maris had zero intentional walks in 1961 - which was no doubt due to Mantle hitting behind him. Ruth no doubt benefited greatly by having Gehrig following him.

That being said, Maris endured a lot more pressure in his time than Gehrig ever did. IMHO

[billyb]

This thread leads me two a second question, which may have caused a little more pressure in the era of BEFORE TV.
Before TV, my question is:
Was there more of a frenzied fan atmosphere, around the players?

The only visual contact the fans had with the players, was actually going to the games. Yes there was newspapers and magazine photos, and they could get some description and personal habits of the players through radio play by play and interviews. But without that visual, to go along with the radio information the fans received from the announcers, these images may have been built up, in their own minds, at a higher level.
We get to see the players on TV nowadays, so when we go to the games, seeing the stars in action, is sort of expected. Still admired, but nothing we have not seen before.
Before TV, going to the games, many fans were getting their first glimpse of their heroes in action. And it may have taken going to several games before they got to see their favorite player, hit that home run, or go 3 for 4 and drive in several runs.
I just think, before TV, the fans were more excited, especially, when coming in contact with some of the players. That is my opinion, what is yours?

[martingale]

Interesting topics Billy.

About Gehrig - He was undoubtedly a superstar. If there was no Ruth, I don't think he would have felt any more pressure or that his play would have been affected. Why? Because in Ruth's absence the media would have focused on somebody other than Gehrig who could fill that "celebrity" role, playing the part by providing interesting quotes and giving the reporters juicy stories to tell. For example, after Ruth left the Yankees, the media focused on DiMaggio, a rookie from San Francisco, not on Gehrig. Day after day, the papers tended to highlight DiMaggio's performance over Gehrig's.

About the era before TV - Agree with you that there was more of a frenzied fan atmosphere. I think back then, the lack of TV and the relative lack of comparable audiovisual entertainment options magnified the thrill experienced by the average fan at a baseball game. Did this translate into more pressure for the players? Hard to say, but I'm inclined to say no.