Most overrated pre-war card?

[ullmandds]

i rescind...i misspoke...I also agree prewar should be construed as pre 45...or 41...so then the goudeys can stay...but the 52 topps most certainly cannot! There can'r be many 45' issues out there?

[oldjudge]

Todd--this whole "rookie" card thing is dealer contrived to make some extra money. The M101 Ruth never had the reputation it has had in the last ten years. It was a Ruth card, but an ugly, common one. The Boston Store/Collins McCarthy from that period was always the preferred card. The funniest thing is when some unscrupulous auctioneers hype the blank back Ruth's as the first of the M101 group. Most likely these were just unsold sheets that were later cut up.

[nolemmings]

Jay, while I don't know why you want to start something with me, as I was just setting the record straight, allow me to disagree in large part. First, while I believe the rookie chase craze was indeed dealer contrived, that doesn't alter the fact that the m101/4 is in fact Ruth's rookie card, which is what I said. Moreover, until 10-12 years ago, the E135s were wrongfully dated as 1916 cards, giving the collector the impression that Ruth had two different rookie cards. I submit that some collectors seeking the E135 may have thought differently had they known the true facts, whatever their aesthetic preference. I also disagree completely that the card was ever ugly or common, but acknowledge that the E135 is much more difficult to find. Finally, while I too have trouble with dealers claiming that all blank-back Ruths are m101-5 when they are more likely not, I have seen no evidence at all to show that "Most likely these were just unsold sheets that were later cut up." I would love to see that evidence.

Edited to add: I recognize that 10-12 years ago many thought m101-5 was dated 1915 as well. My point is there was confusion surrounding what may have been Ruth's rookie card, which confusion no longer exists. To that extent, I modify my earlier response which stated that m101-4 always had been considered his rookie-- I was referring to the relatively recent phenomenon that the Baltimore News card should be considered as such.

[oldjudge]

Todd--no attempt here to pick a fight. I respect your knowledge in the area. I guess that the point I am making is that first, the definition of a "rookie" card is not a universally accepted fact. I personally think that the Baltimore News Ruth is his rookie card. I think that is the same as a player's first card. Many don't agree with me, but that's fine. This is not an exact science. Second, why anyone would care any more about a rookie card than any other card is beyond me. I look for best image, most interesting card. Rookie card means nothing to me. The perversion of rookie cards is best expressed in the '52 Mantle, which for years was called his Topps rookie card.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Todd--no attempt here to pick a fight. I respect your knowledge in the area. I guess that the point I am making is that first, the definition of a "rookie" card is not a universally accepted fact. I personally think that the Baltimore News Ruth is his rookie card. I think that is the same as a player's first card. Many don't agree with me, but that's fine. This is not an exact science. Second, why anyone would care any more about a rookie card than any other card is beyond me. I look for best image, most interesting card. Rookie card means nothing to me. The perversion of rookie cards is best expressed in the '52 Mantle, which for years was called his Topps rookie card.

I agree re rookie cards. While I'm interested in a player's first card, I'm not if that first card is a dog (Gehrig) and later images of the player are fantastic (33,34 Goudey, DeLong). As for Ruth, I think anyone who wants his "rookie" card would be much more interested in the Baltimore News version than the M101-4/5 if not for the price difference -- because that is some difference.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree re rookie cards. While I'm interested in a player's first card, I'm not if that first card is a dog (Gehrig) and later images of the player are fantastic (33,34 Goudey, DeLong). As for Ruth, I think anyone who wants his "rookie" card would be much more interested in the Baltimore News version than the M101-4/5 if not for the price difference -- because that is some difference.

+1

Of course they would - but where's the fun in chasing something you can't realistically get.

[Vintagecatcher]

The Honus Wagner T206 is certainly the most overrated baseball card ever.

Are the Honus Wagner T206 cards scarce...without a doubt... when only about 55-60 are known by the hobby. However, there are many pre-war cards that are have fewer examples remaining.

In my humble opinion, the Gretzky Wagner T206 has come to symbolize all that is wrong with the hobby. It was a card that was not shipped in a pack of cigarettes but according to hobby lore ...was cut from a sheet...then trimmed to the size of issued examples.

This altered example then became the poster child for greed when it became the first card graded by a now well known grading company. How poetic is it that the baseball card grading started with a lie...in fact, out right fraud. That's all one needs to know about the grading companies. Just follow the money.

Honus Wagner was a great all around ball player. The T206 set is a wonderful tobacco set. But when you mix in the quest for perfection, and greed enters the picture, you have the perfect recipe for disaster.

Patrick

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree re rookie cards. While I'm interested in a player's first card, I'm not if that first card is a dog (Gehrig) and later images of the player are fantastic (33,34 Goudey, DeLong). As for Ruth, I think anyone who wants his "rookie" card would be much more interested in the Baltimore News version than the M101-4/5 if not for the price difference -- because that is some difference.

How is the DeLong Gehrig a fantastic image, you can't even make out his face?