1952 Topps #131-190 Gray Backs

[usmcloady]

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader. My name is Sean and I am a Collector of several different items (Vintage Cards, Modern Cards, Toy Collectables). I have read this thread several times as I have been trying to find information on the 1952 Grey Backs and their possible connection to Topps Rails and Sails. I know collectors recall finding 52' Grey backs in Rails and Sails packs, but the majority of the Rails and Sails packs I have seen are from 1955. I have, however, also seen 1953 Topps Rails and Sails packs (OPC or Printed in Canada??). Is it possible that the Rails and Sails packs were sold in 1953 and 1955 (I have never seen a 1954 Rails and Sails pack)? 1953 being very close to the 1952 Topps run thus providing a possible method for distribution of 1952 Greys in 1953 Rails and Sails packs? This is just something I have been mulling over in my head recently and thought I post it here for the knowledgeable collectors here on the board. In my head, this seems very possible, a 1953 Topps Rails and Sails pack containing some extra cards from a previous print run to "Fatten" the packs up. Has anyone ever opened/or know of someone opening a 1955 or 1953 Rails and Sails pack in the past, say, 10 years?

[Zach Wheat]

I thought this rang a bell.....after searching through some articles I had saved, I realized Bob Lemke wrote on this issue:

http://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/05...-canadian.html

He also gives some detail about the glossy mid-series gray backs referenced in another post.


Z Wheat

[Lgarza99]

I love reading all the research and possible reasons for this 52 Topps variations. I am just a newbie on this issue so I have no insight other then this.

I work in a print industry and I have been made aware of the following:
1. Paper suppliers raw stock variations.
2. Pressman pulling the incorrect stock to keep his press running, usually in a small pocket, before catching the mistake. Thus small quantity of defect work.
3. Paper trials performed during live runs, and trials are usually flagged but may have not been all removed. Trials performed to test run ability of a new stock to reduce production cost.
4. As far as distribution? A producing plant may have earmarked them for other market release in other products as they did not meet quality level for intended 1952 Topps baseball release. As in the lack of a gloss surface? The gloss may have been applied on a seperate pass? If so, Topps may have not wanted to add cost to this production anomaly.

Just food for thought on a few production floor typical scenarios that may have occurred.

Thanks,
Luis

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by usmcloady

Hello everyone. First time poster, long time reader. My name is Sean and I am a Collector of several different items (Vintage Cards, Modern Cards, Toy Collectables). I have read this thread several times as I have been trying to find information on the 1952 Grey Backs and their possible connection to Topps Rails and Sails. I know collectors recall finding 52' Grey backs in Rails and Sails packs, but the majority of the Rails and Sails packs I have seen are from 1955. I have, however, also seen 1953 Topps Rails and Sails packs (OPC or Printed in Canada??). Is it possible that the Rails and Sails packs were sold in 1953 and 1955 (I have never seen a 1954 Rails and Sails pack)? 1953 being very close to the 1952 Topps run thus providing a possible method for distribution of 1952 Greys in 1953 Rails and Sails packs? This is just something I have been mulling over in my head recently and thought I post it here for the knowledgeable collectors here on the board. In my head, this seems very possible, a 1953 Topps Rails and Sails pack containing some extra cards from a previous print run to "Fatten" the packs up. Has anyone ever opened/or know of someone opening a 1955 or 1953 Rails and Sails pack in the past, say, 10 years?

Is there dating on the 53 R&S packs?

FWIW Lord Baltimore Press printed the 1950's Topps Giant Size cards.

[usmcloady]

I have a few unopened Rails and Sails packs. They are graded by GAI. The "1955" Topps packs do not have a date on the pack itself, just on the label created by GAI stating they are 1955. The packs say printed in the USA and made by Topps. The "1953" packs also do not have a date on the back, but on the GAI Label say "1953" Topps. The back of the "1953" pack says London, Ontario O-Pee-Chee, Printed in Canada. The wrappers from both "1953" and "1955" have slight color variations and slightly different Font where it says "Rails and Sails" on the pack. I have never heard of O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails cards. All the Rails and Sails singles I have seen always say T.G.C. (Topps Gum Company?) on the back. I have never seen an O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails card. I will try to post a few scans in the next week (work is very busy at the moment) of my "1953" Rails and Sails pack. Does anyone else have any input on O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails? Another question I am pondering..if 1953 was O-Pee-Chee Rails and Sails and 1955 was Topps Rails and Sails, is there a 1954 version?

[usmcloady]

Correction..T.C.G. is what I have always seen on the backs on Rails and Sails cards. But still..I have never seen "OPC" or anything like that. I'm tempted to open my "1953" OPC pack to see...but I am not brave enough at this point in time.

[1963Topps Set]

Originally Posted by usmcloady

Correction..T.C.G. is what I have always seen on the backs on Rails and Sails cards. But still..I have never seen "OPC" or anything like that. I'm tempted to open my "1953" OPC pack to see...but I am not brave enough at this point in time.

I completely understand your reluctance!

[usmcloady]

Zach I hope you don't mind..I copied and pasted a posted from a previous thread of why it makes sense to me in my mind that 1953 Rails and Sails could be one of the ways the Grey/Gray backs were distributed. Here is the post I found from a previous thread from Ted...

"Zach

None the guys who shared their experience collecting 52T cards in 1952 were from Canada. I have heard of rumors that the 52T mid-series gray-backs
originated from Canada. I have not seen any evidence of this.

I have also heard that 54T - 1st series (#1-50) cards that have gray-backs originated from Canada. I think this fact has been supported by at least 2
Canadian finds of 54T cards. I have a 54T Eddie Lopat gray-back as a type card.

Finally, one of the guys, who recalls getting 52T gray-backs as a kid, remembers buying Rails & Sails packs that included one (or two) 52T gray-backs.
Now, the Rails & Sails cards were issued in 1955, and that suggests, if this was so, it may have been an anomaly.


TED Z"

While most Rails and Sails packs I see are said to be 1955 Topps Rails and Sails..I do in fact have a 1953 Rails and Sails pack that says it was made in London, Ontario via O-Pee-Chee and Printed in Canada. I believe if the above fella that said he remembers pulling 52 Gray backs from Rails and Sails in 52/53..that maybe he had a 1953 Rails and Sails pack that he pulled them from. This could also support the above statement/theory that the 52' Grey Backs originated from Canada. Obviously this is all speculation on my part, but it is fun playing detective and trying to solve this mystery.

[usmcloady]

I have tried to upload a picture of my 1953 Rails and Sails pack several times recently, but for somereason it will not download from my iphone photos. I have the size at a medium size. At any rate, Im still trying. In the mean time..does any have any new/additional information or ideas on these "Grays"?