Ron and Khyber Oser leave Legendary for Huggins

[Fred]

Scott,

It's not easy for me to find dumb, I get to look in the mirror every morning and do my best Forrest Gump... The person told me this back when Mastro Auctions was going strong. I think it was before it turned to MastroNet. In any case I'll shock you by saying I was "shocked" to hear it....

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Fred

Scott,

It's not easy for me to find dumb, I get to look in the mirror every morning and do my best Forrest Gump... The person told me this back when Mastro Auctions was going strong. I think it was before it turned to MastroNet. In any case I'll shock you by saying I was "shocked" to hear it....

Yes, Fred shame on you for not assuming everyone in the hobby is a crook.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Yes, Fred shame on you for not assuming everyone in the hobby is a crook.

Jeff, do you actually assume that EVERYONE in the hobby is a crook?

Hopefully not. I'm not even sure that the consensus of forum members believe that there is anything wrong with shilling your own auctions.

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Jeff, do you actually assume that EVERYONE in the hobby is a crook?

Hopefully not. I'm not even sure that the consensus of forum members believe that there is anything wrong with shilling your own auctions.

No Scott.

I am willing to give the vast majority of the members of this forum credit for believing shilling their own auctions is wrong.

What I will say is that I believe the majority of hobbyists aren't bothered enough by the misdeeds of others to stop doing business with them. And I think they (the others) know this and have counted on it for years.

There's just something about this stuff of ours.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I am willing to give the vast majority of the members of this forum credit for believing shilling their own auctions is wrong.

.

I wish this were true but I don't think it is. Yes, most collectors who don't consign cards believe shilling is bad; many who do consign expensive cards either engage in shill bidding or condone it. I would guess easily more than half.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I wish this were true but I don't think it is. Yes, most collectors who don't consign cards believe shilling is bad; many who do consign expensive cards either engage in shill bidding or condone it. I would guess easily more than half.

Jeff-you can rule me out big time. I just lost my ass on several T206s with Robert Edwards (it will be the last time with that auction) in their Fall auction. Maybe I'm an idiot....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Kevin, hard for me to believe you would have done better elsewhere. I am guessing REA attracts more eyes than anyone.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by CMIZ5290

Jeff-you can rule me out big time. I just lost my ass on several T206s with Robert Edwards (it will be the last time with that auction) in their Fall auction. Maybe I'm an idiot....

It's not the auction house's fault when they refuse to shill up a card, unfortunately. I got creamed in Al's auction on a card and it was due to three factors: a) I bought the card in a Doug Allen auction and was defrauded then; b) I didn't engage in shill bidding when I sold it; c) Al didn't engage in shill bidding during the auction.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

No Scott.

I am willing to give the vast majority of the members of this forum credit for believing shilling their own auctions is wrong.

What I will say is that I believe the majority of hobbyists aren't bothered enough by the misdeeds of others to stop doing business with them. And I think they (the others) know this and have counted on it for years.

There's just something about this stuff of ours.

I give them credit for understanding that shilling is wrong, but I still believe that most of them do it. And I do believe that plenty of forum members believe it's okay - while they haven't stated it outright, I think the discussions we've had about crooked ebay sellers have told us a lot about what people here are willing to do in order to get top dollar for their consignments.

As far as being bothered by the misdeeds of others, I have no idea who in particular are shilling their own auctions, and it's really impossible to stop doing business with all hobbyists. If we stopped doing business with any Auction House that permitted it, we would have to stop doing business with all auction houses, as it's impossible for them to keep consignors from getting their friends to shill for them. That would leave you just trading with your most trusted friends and buying cards at flea markets.

I think the Legendary convictions were a good start. But I don't know, any more than you do, which auction houses are still shilling their own auctions.