1961 Topps SP Research

[toppcat]

Yup to much of the above. From 1957-68 it's usually the high number sheets that were mucked around with the most but sometimes things happened in lower series. Topps would print past the lower series by having say 109 cards (plus next checklist) on the first print run but only having the first series run from 1-88 on the checklist. They could then print 88 card runs after that and still stay ahead by 22 cards but sometimes they would drop 11 cards in a mid series. It would all get trued up in the last series/print run. Those sneaky bastards would have you receive cards from the next series and entice you to fill that series in as well.

You have to be careful with finds, especially vending as they sometimes seem to just come from one of the half-sheets and can skew the SP's.

[Rich Klein]

Jim

That is a very accurate description of what occured. I just took all the knowledge we had about cards being short and the uncut sheet clinched it.

So yes, I was the final decider on that issue but only because of empirical evidence created over the previous decade

Rich

[parkerj33]

Hi Rich. Its Jim Parker from NY, not Craig Parker from OK (no relation).....but thanks for the confirmation!

[parkerj33]

Dave, you just snuck in another curveball quite slyly. So technically the first series in some years was really 110 (or 109) cards, not 88 as might be listed? or do the lists of series take this into account? I suppose we can never really know the ratio of cards produced in series 1 vs. series 2 or series N. That would only be known by the factory. All we can decipher from the A/B full sheet of a particular series is what the ratio of printing of one subject to another would be.

[moeson]

I recall that during the 60s, a series would be 88 cards like on the checklist but the packs would include 21 cards from the next series as a preview or teaser.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by parkerj33

Dave, you just snuck in another curveball quite slyly. So technically the first series in some years was really 110 (or 109) cards, not 88 as might be listed? or do the lists of series take this into account? I suppose we can never really know the ratio of cards produced in series 1 vs. series 2 or series N. That would only be known by the factory. All we can decipher from the A/B full sheet of a particular series is what the ratio of printing of one subject to another would be.

The print run would be 110 but the series would be 88 in a common scenario.

[Kevvyg1026]

The one full slit shown in this thread has a pattern of: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D, G where A is the row headed by Coot Veal, B headed by F Thomas, C by Turk Lown, D by Bauer, E by Aaron, etc.

The other partial panel shown in a post in this thread has Del Crandall (390) in the bottom row of a slit. Crandall is in the row headed by Bauer, so rows B, C, & D are at the bottom of slit 2.

There are also a few other miscuts that suggest that there are four rows (A, B, C, & D) printed 4x each across the two slits, with two rows (E, G) printed 3x each, and one row (F) printed 2x each. This gives 7 distinct rows and 24 rows of 11 cards each (total = 264 cards).

So, the SPs would be the cards in row F, headed by Barker. These are: 428, 423, 408, 421, 430, 417, 361, 371, 446, 402, and 436.

Of course, 361 is the checklist which was printed in series 4 as well, so it might not be classified as a SP. However, there is a variation of card #361 (yellow vs black printing, ad vs no ad), so perhaps the yellow print/ad version is a SP.

[jmoran19]

Well it's a big day in the 1960's uncut world.

With the sheet below I can confirm the 1961 5th series SP's (add Bob Taylor to the list as mentioned a few times above). The 5th series CL is also in that row but most likely printed with the 4th series too as Kevin mentioned.

In 25 years of collecting photos of uncut sheets this is the first time I personally have visual evidence of a 77 card series printed outside the 4 rows printed 3 times/3 rows printed 4 times model.

For the record the rows with Hank Aaron and Ken Boyer are the printed 3 times rows. Everything else is printed 4 times across the two half sheets.

John

[toppcat]

Looks like the same setup as the known 1967 high number slit:

A
B
C
D
E
A
F
G
B
C
D
E

[Kevvyg1026]

That slit which J Moran posted is of the format you describe (A, B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E) but the other slit is B, C, D, E, A, F, G, B, C, D, E, G.

So, rows A & G are printed 3x, rows B, C, D, E are printed 4x, and row F is only printed 2x.

[skil55voy]

Originally Posted by toppcat

Yup to much of the above. From 1957-68 it's usually the high number sheets that were mucked around with the most but sometimes things happened in lower series. Topps would print past the lower series by having say 109 cards (plus next checklist) on the first print run but only having the first series run from 1-88 on the checklist. They could then print 88 card runs after that and still stay ahead by 22 cards but sometimes they would drop 11 cards in a mid series. It would all get trued up in the last series/print run. Those sneaky bastards would have you receive cards from the next series and entice you to fill that series in as well.

You have to be careful with finds, especially vending as they sometimes seem to just come from one of the half-sheets and can skew the SP's.

Dave, this is spot on. I distinctly remember a dozen cards from the next series being released along with the next checklist to give you a preview of what was coming. I also think that the "pre-released" series cards a little tougher to get if you didn't get them mixed in with the first series release.