Golden Era Hall of Fame Ballot announced

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

+1

If "amassing stats" is just something an ordinary ballplayer does then why are not hundreds of more ball players joining those great milestone clubs? Isn't consistency something to be celebrated?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

If "amassing stats" is just something an ordinary ballplayer does then why are not hundreds of more ball players joining those great milestone clubs? Isn't consistency something to be celebrated?

No one is saying that the players who amass superior stats are ordinary players, it's just that there are a bunch in the HOF who are only there due to longevity. Do you think that a pitcher who played in an era when pitchers routinely started 40 games a year, pitched for a top team, won 20 games only once and never finished in the top 3 for a Cy Young deserves to be in the HOF due solely to playing forever? The question is what defines greatness. Is it amassing stats via 20 good seasons but rarely great? Or 10 dominant seasons with significantly less lifetime accumulated stats? I think it's the latter obviously.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Look at yaz. Mostly longevity stats his avg season was not that great really.

[Iron Horse]

Garvey should be in the Hall. He was the best player in that position for nearly a decade. I grew up watching him play and on the Dodgers team he was one of their best if not the best hitter all around. Plus he played every game until he broke a finger if i recall. Performed well in the World Series, All Star games...There are many players in the Hall that if you look at their stats you would say why? & they were not dominant for nearly a decade. Oh, i forgot all those gold gloves

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Look at yaz. Mostly longevity stats his avg season was not that great really.

Yeah, Yaz had longevity, but he also played at a very high level during those years - he had 18 All-Star appearances. Also, he was the best in the game at one point, winning an MVP and a Triple Crown.

The guys that I think that earned it mostly through longevity are guys like Don Sutton - (4 time All-Star, 0 Cy Youngs and only 1 20-game win season), Bert Blyleven (0, 0 and 1), Tony Perez and Billy Williams.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

Yeah, Yaz had longevity, but he also played at a very high level during those years - he had 18 All-Star appearances. Also, he was the best in the game at one point, winning an MVP and a Triple Crown.

Except he really didn't. Yaz put up a ton of .270/18/75 seasons. In all honesty, he really wasn't an elite player for pretty much the entire last 13 seasons. He had a couple very good years but nothing great. Basically, he was great for 3, maybe 4, years and that's it.

[johnmh71]

I think Tiant should be elected, not only because his career but his character as well. Coming back form the major injury that he had showed a lot of dedication to the game.

[calvindog]

Speaking of the 70s, can anyone claim that Bert Blyleven was a more dominant player of his era than Steve Garvey? Blyleven made 2 AS teams, had 4 top 10 CY finishes and won 20 games once.

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Except he really didn't. Yaz put up a ton of .270/18/75 seasons. In all honesty, he really wasn't an elite player for pretty much the entire last 13 seasons. He had a couple very good years but nothing great. Basically, he was great for 3, maybe 4, years and that's it.

I guess that we just have a different opinion of what a "very high level" is. I think the fact that he received MVP votes in 14 different season and played in more All-Star games than anyone except Aaron, Mays, Musial and Ripken is pretty impressive. Plus, he has 7 Gold Glove awards and the few times that played in the postseason, he excelled.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Baseball Rarities

I guess that we just have a different opinion of what a "very high level" is. I think the fact that he received MVP votes in 14 different season and played in more All-Star games than anyone except Aaron, Mays, Musial and Ripken is pretty impressive. Plus, he has 7 Gold Glove awards and the few times that played in the postseason, he excelled.

At a point the All Star game just became an entitlement for Yaz. He made it for example in a season where he was 12-68-.264. And the year before that he was 15-70-.254. And lest you think these were token appreciation-type votes at the end of the career, uh uh. These were at age 31 and 32.

[sago]

Longevity thy name is Eddie Murray. Never dominant for any stretch of time.

[collectbaseball]

I am in the school that tends to think the HOF has a few duds, but I think I’d put in Hodges, Allen, and Minoso. I wouldn’t have a problem with Wills or Oliva. The others I don’t think belong…

Two I really think should be in are Tommy John and Curt Flood. Both very very good players who have arguably had more influence in shaping the game of baseball than anybody else in the last 50 years. The combination of on-field merit and off-field influence seems like it should qualify them easily.

[Buythatcard]

Hodges.

They left out my favorite: Maris.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by calvindog

No one is saying that the players who amass superior stats are ordinary players, it's just that there are a bunch in the HOF who are only there due to longevity. Do you think that a pitcher who played in an era when pitchers routinely started 40 games a year, pitched for a top team, won 20 games only once and never finished in the top 3 for a Cy Young deserves to be in the HOF due solely to playing forever? The question is what defines greatness. Is it amassing stats via 20 good seasons but rarely great? Or 10 dominant seasons with significantly less lifetime accumulated stats? I think it's the latter obviously.

I value a high level of consistency over a long period of time. Maybe that's why Eddie Murray is my favorite player of all-time.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

I value a high level of consistency over a long period of time. Maybe that's why Eddie Murray is my favorite player of all-time.

Eddie Murray was no Blyleven or Sutton -- he was a terror for many years. I don't think he qualifies as a guy who got in just due to longevity.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Eddie Murray was no Blyleven or Sutton -- he was a terror for many years. I don't think he qualifies as a guy who got in just due to longevity.

I agree with Jeff here. Murray was a switch hitting offensive monster at the plate. Definitely HOF worthy.

Best,

Eric

[Orioles1954]

There has been over 18,000 players suit up in big league history. Around 250 have been inducted in the Hall of Fame. Please tell me how the Hall of Fame has been "bogged down?" If anything, I think there is room for several dozen more!

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There has been over 18,000 players suit up in big league history. Around 250 have been inducted in the Hall of Fame. Please tell me how the Hall of Fame has been "bogged down?" If anything, I think there is room for several dozen more!

How are those stats relevant at all???????????? What the heck does it matter how many people played versus the total number of players enshrined???? The Hall of Fame is for the elite of the elite players. Bert Blyleven and Don Sutton lost 250 or more games each and neither was ever a dominant pitcher. They were good/decent for 20 or so seasons each. That's it. The Hall is supposed to be only for the great. They, and some others, bog it down.

[triwak]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There has been over 18,000 players suit up in big league history. Around 250 have been inducted in the Hall of Fame. Please tell me how the Hall of Fame has been "bogged down?" If anything, I think there is room for several dozen more!

+1

(Well, maybe not several DOZEN more, yet - but I agree with this sentiment. Toughest Hall of all the major sports, by far)!

[SteveMitchell]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

There have been over 18,000 players suit up in big league history. Around 250 have been inducted in the Hall of Fame. Please tell me how the Hall of Fame has been "bogged down?" If anything, I think there is room for several dozen more!

+1

Sometimes I think the HOF purists (if they had their way) would hardly have enough members to play a mythical game (barely two players per position) without "watering down" the Hall. There just aren't enough Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb or Christy Mathewson types without getting down to the merely OK: You know, the pedestrian 250-300 game winners or guys who only paced the league a few times and ranked in the top 10 annually but never apparently set the world on fire.

[turtleguy64]

Did Yaz make 18 All Star appearances due to the fact that someone had to represent the Sox and Bill Monboquette wasn't always really good ? he played at a high level.....up to a certain point and the decline began in the '70s.

[Scocs]

What do these guys have against Dodger players? I just can't wrap my head around the fact that neither Gil Hodges nor Steve Garvey is in the Hall....

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by Scocs

What do these guys have against Dodger players? I just can't wrap my head around the fact that neither Gil Hodges nor Steve Garvey is in the Hall....

272 homers for Garvey and a career OPS+ of 117. He doesn't belong.