Overpriced cards

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Do you ever look at eBay and get sick of the same overpriced cards being re-listed for weeks or months on end? I get it that some people will just endlessly fish for that one rube who will overspend but sheesh...

Super-old topic, but I'll play: If you were buying cards on ebay ten years ago, I'm sure you remember the great straight auctions, especially when collections or finds were auctioned off at the same time. We would hang out in chat and talk about them. Very exciting stuff.

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced BIN's.

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If I showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even if sellers are searching for the one rube, why isn't that their business? Don't be the rube then, and move on.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If I showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

Scott, very well expressed. Among the key statements you make is one I shall repeat yet again:

"The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal."

The smug remarks from almost every National attendee was how cards were so ridiculously overpriced. Just wait 'til its THEIR time to sell. The National vendors conduct their business just as they do on eBay. Price something nice very steep. Then negotiate with a serious buyer. As for someone who loves the card, but grimaces at the price and won't even ask about a counter offer---HERE THEN is the stupid one.

---Brian Powell

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Scott, very well expressed. Among the key statements you make is one I shall repeat yet again:

"The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal."

The smug remarks from almost every National attendee was how cards were so ridiculously overpriced. Just wait 'til its THEIR time to sell. The National vendors conduct their business just as they do on eBay. Price something nice very steep. Then negotiate with a serious buyer. As for someone who loves the card, but grimaces at the price and won't even ask about a counter offer---HERE THEN is the stupid one.

---Brian Powell

Thanks Brian. I hate to get into that discussion, as I completely understand the frustration of ebay buyers and naturally, I don't want to alienate them; however, many of the ones who post here are making no effort to understand what's happening. I think if you are going to complain about ebay in this manner, you should also post your ebay handle. That way the sellers who you dislike so much can save you the problem of accidentally bidding in their auctions.

As a buyer, you can filter out sellers whose prices you dislike - it is very easy. I use that feature to filter out keyword spammers, but you can do it for any seller.

[bnorth]

I must be in the minority. I think eBay/paypal fees are very reasonable. Try opening a real store once and see what your expenses are. Trust me you will no longer complain about eBay fees.

My one slight complaint on eBay fees are that they are a flat % now. I liked the old step system. On higher end items the fees should be slightly lower than on cheap items under $100.

I have never understood those that go into a brick and mortar store and think that eBay prices are what they should pay. eBay is a crap shoot at best, in the B/M store you get to look at and touch the actual merchandise you are going to buy. This goes for everything not just our hobby of cards.

[HerbK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

So here is some wisdom for you: not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that ALL BIN cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what?

Yes... thank you for that.

I think what the OP was referring to - and what I agree with, were cards that were being listed at 4x and 5x their value. If a $1000 card is listed for $5000, there is little chance that a mutual agreement can be made with that level of disparity. There's no "meeting in the middle" with a $4000 differential. No one is inferring that your mark-up should be "five cents".... that's silly. But if you think you're going to be successful with all your cards being marked up 500% ... guess what?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HerbK

Yes... thank you for that.

I think what the OP was referring to - and what I agree with, were cards that were being listed at 4x and 5x their value. If a $1000 card is listed for $5000, there is little chance that a mutual agreement can be made with that level of disparity. There's no "meeting in the middle" with a $4000 differential. No one is inferring that your mark-up should be "five cents".... that's silly. But if you think you're going to be successful with all your cards being marked up 500% ... guess what?

You are welcome.

I used 'five cents' as an example - go re-read it if you don't understand my point. I don't need to guess about the effects of 500% mark-ups, as I don't condone it and I don't think it's a successful business model. You'll need to build a more reasonable straw man if you want to have a discussion.

[asoriano]

Yikes, that McGraw is overpriced and overgraded!

[HerbK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I used 'five cents' as an example - go re-read it if you don't understand my point. I don't need to guess about the effects of 500% mark-ups, as I don't condone it and I don't think it's a successful business model. You'll need to build a more reasonable straw man if you want to have a discussion.

I totally understand your point.... you're the one who stated concerns about your mark-up being "five cents", not me. If you think your profits should be somewhere in the area of say, 25% for example (which would be reasonable), then you should have stated that.

The discussion is a valid one .... There's no logic whatsoever in listing cards (or anything for that matter) on eBay with a 500% mark-up. I know there's always a fool to occasionally pull the trigger ... but those are few and far between.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by HerbK

I totally understand your point.... you're the one who stated concerns about your mark-up being "five cents", not me. If you think your profits should be somewhere in the area of say, 25% for example (which would be reasonable), then you should have stated that.

The discussion is a valid one .... There's no logic whatsoever in listing cards (or anything for that matter) on eBay with a 500% mark-up. I know there's always a fool to occasionally pull the trigger ... but those are few and far between.

You took my statement out of context, or I didn't explain it well. I said: "If I price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will)." My point being that EVEN if I only ask for a nickel profit, they still will rarely sell for the asking price.

Ebay has evolved to a point that some (if not most) buyers assume a mark-up above market value, that might not even exist. From my example, maybe it is only 5 cents, but the buyer is assuming it is much higher. Most simply aren't educated about values - this forum is certainly an exception.

Edited to add: I really don't want to get into my own selling strategy much, but I think that it is imperative for sellers to have a very good understanding of current market values for the items they are selling. If you don't know what your items are worth, and you only have a small number listed, your mark-up has to be higher than a high-volume dealer who is a smart buyer and understands market values. But everyone has a different business model. I remember being outbid a few years ago on a beautiful T205 set. I went as high as I possibly could, given my pricing strategy and overhead. But I later saw the set broken out on ebay by a huge dealer who had thousands of items listed. These cards were marked up much higher than I would have felt comfortable with, but the seller is a bright guy, so it must be working for him. Basically, if you have enough inventory and enough capital, you can do anything you want, but that's true of anything.

[whiteymet]

This guy has had this up for months!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ORIG...item4ac6afff1a

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

This guy has had this up for months!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-ORIG...item4ac6afff1a

This card has been on eBay for over 3 years. http://www.ebay.com/itm/no-F-SCRIBBL...item3cb94ea160

The description is a total BS lie. I own more than 6 of those exact same cards and is a $10 card shipped on a good day.

[HerbK]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You took my statement out of context, or I didn't explain it well.

Ok - gotcha.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by runscott

super-old topic, but i'll play: If you were buying cards on ebay ten years ago, i'm sure you remember the great straight auctions, especially when collections or finds were auctioned off at the same time. We would hang out in chat and talk about them. Very exciting stuff.

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced bin's.

So here is some wisdom for you: Not all ebay buyers are as smart as you. And even the smart ones now feel that all bin cards are probably overpriced - sure, they could look up values, but it's now more of a psychological thing. If i price all of my cards at a price that will earn me five cents profit - guess what? They won't sell for the asking price (or they rarely will). I'll get low-balled by a certain percentage on every one of them. The take-home message is that buyers aren't looking for a fair deal - they are looking for a steal. So to play the game, sellers overprice their cards, buyers then respond with a discounted offer, and the cards sell.

No, sellers aren't looking for a "rube" - they are looking to stay in business. If i showed you my accounting for this year you would stop whining.

+100

[kailes2872]

Ebay purposely changed all that, so now you have high-priced BIN's.

I see this mentioned a lot and I was just wondering if someone could add some color to the comment? When I post something that doesn't sell, they always recommend that I price it at $0.99 in auction format.

Did they change their fee structure to encourage BINs vs auction? I know that I have recently posted as Auctions (basically at BIN starting prices) because the $.30 insertion fee was waived - but I will will be the first to admit that I am a newbie on the selling side of Ebay and am probably not maximizing value.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Here is another problem with the "buyer" or "non-dealer" thinking. They want what they want, when they want at flea market or straight auction price. As someone who sells on eBay, I am constantly looking for high quality items at a lower than expected price that I think I can make money on. I am not shopping for exact items like most buyers do. Sellers often get emails from buyers stating, "I just saw a similar item for $". My response is why didn't you buy it then. Buyers also don't always take condition in to account for memorabilia. They want NRMt items for Vg or Ex price. They also want to want to take credit for all the searching, finding, knowledge, and connections that sellers have made for years and not allow a seller to profit from that work or knowledge.

I would also like to comment on someone's previous assertion that eBay is a place to find deals. eBay marketing would definitely disagree with you. eBay markets itself as an online shopping marketplace. They want to encourage shoppers to come on there for their birthday purchase for their father or an item they cannot find somewhere else. I sell a lot of items to people buying gifts for someone else that are absolutely elated to find the item that their special person has always talked about, etc. That is the customer eBay wants, not a bunch of collectors like us.

I have said this before many times, if you don't like what someone has or what it's priced, strike up a conversation with them and ask for a lower price. If they don't want to sell it for that price just move on. Jason

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I would also like to comment on someone's previous assertion that eBay is a place to find deals. eBay marketing would definitely disagree with you. eBay markets itself as an online shopping marketplace. They want to encourage shoppers to come on there for their birthday purchase for their father or an item they cannot find somewhere else. I sell a lot of items to people buying gifts for someone else that are absolutely elated to find the item that their special person has always talked about, etc. That is the customer eBay wants, not a bunch of collectors like us.

And that is a crucial mistake that eBay marketing is making. Because the public does not view eBay as a place to pay full price due to the inherent risk of buying from someone you only know by an eBay name. If you saw a card that you wanted on eBay for $1000 from some seller you didn't know, but you could buy the same card at REA for $1000 (counting the buyer's premium), you would probably buy the REA card because it would seem safer.

As I said, eBay is indeed a place for items that you can't easily get somewhere else. But if what is being sold is something that can be found elsewhere, it needs to be sold at a discount on eBay or no one is going to buy it. When eBay tries to be another Amazon, it loses.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

And that is a crucial mistake that eBay marketing is making. Because the public does not view eBay as a place to pay full price due to the inherent risk of buying from someone you only know by an eBay name. If you saw a card that you wanted on eBay for $1000 from some seller you didn't know, but you could buy the same card at REA for $1000 (counting the buyer's premium), you would probably buy the REA card because it would seem safer.

As I said, eBay is indeed a place for items that you can't easily get somewhere else. But if what is being sold is something that can be found elsewhere, it needs to be sold at a discount on eBay or no one is going to buy it. When eBay tries to be another Amazon, it loses.

That isn't true for all sellers and it isn't the perception of all buyers. Many buyers would much rather use the simplicity of paying through Paypal, and get their card quickly, as opposed to having to pay with a check and wait 3-4 weeks. I'm sure there is still a lot of trailer park mentality on ebay, but ebay's goal has been to move away from that, and it actually has been successful.

[steve B]

Ebay is a strange place for sure.

Not everyone is looking for a bargain, or at least not looking for what would be an obvious bargain.

When I was selling I'd occasionally ask buyers a question or two after the sale was complete. Especially of there was something unusual about the sale.

I sold a bike part to one guy in an auction, and it went for a bit over retail, maybe 5-6 dollars over on a $20 item. Brand new and readily available a most bicycle shops. (I bought a bunch on closeout from our wholesaler and did really well. ) So I asked out of curiosity why he'd been willing to go beyond retail even before the shipping amount. The answer was that he only had two "local" bike shops. One was a two hour round trip, the other more like 4-5 hours. And as he put it "I won't go to the closer one unless I'm desperate because the guy's a D***" So to him saving a 4-5 hour round trip was easily worth paying a few dollars extra.

Of course we all want to get that card right now and for a great price.....Who wouldn't?

The question about the BINs - A long while ago they changed the fee structure for people with stores. Lower or no insertion fees for fixed price, but a higher monthly fee for the store or something like that. For someone organized it was a good deal. I ran into problems if I had more than 20-30 items a week, missing emails, or not getting stuff shipped quickly enough. Quick enough for me that is, I put handling time as 5 days or something, but typically got stuff out within 24 hours. But a few late night trips to storage for an item I'd forgotten to pick up a few more of was annoying. If I was organized enough to have a few hundred items the store would have been a good deal.

Then they made some auctions free insertion, probably to try to get the ratio of auction to fixed price items back to reasonable.

The ever shifting rules and expectations was a big part of what made me stop selling. But I need to start again.

Steve B