Winston and JSA

[Runscott]

Jason - no one on this entire board of 1000's of people seems to be interested in this, except you, me and David, so this apparently isn't very important. So no need to get too upset about me posting - I just thought it was interesting that Winston would do something this obvious, blatant and stupid, after all the other stupid things he has done. I also think it's crazy stupid that someone submitted over 900 of his autographs to anyone - it just happens to be JSA - as it is an obvious trail toward incriminating Winston, and I guess whoever submitted the autographs, although that is not clear.

The point of my post was simply to make the story available by posting the link. Right after I posted it the story ran live on ESPN, and it was sort of a big deal to them, as was JSA's involvement. So if you think I'm taking a shot at a TPA, and that offends you, then be offended by ESPN as well.

However, here is my thinking on JSA's involvement, since I suspect you are going to ask me: JSA has already been through this with Gurley, so they know the signing rules as they apply to college athletes. The players cannot sign for money, and they can't sign for someone who is going to use the autographs for money (I assume this last part has to do with 'mass' signings).

JSA authenticated over 900 Winston items, of only 2-3 types, all at the same time, and from the same source, and all apparently signed with the same pen and in the exact same style;i.e-Winston sat down and signed over 900 items. I didn't make this up - I read it in news reports and heard it on ESPN.

JSA has no liability for doing this; however, they had to know that this idiot Winston was going to get fried for it if caught. Winston is a college athlete, so 900+ items coming in at once from the same source indicates 'for profit'.

But no, JSA has no liability.

Jason - why does it bother you that JSA would give up submission reports? Would you rather they hide what they did so that no one gets caught for violating NCAA rules? If that's how you feel, fine. I'm just wondering.

[drcy]

To Jason, JSA didn't give up any personal info about the submitters or identify them. The reporters discovered on their own that the serial numbers were listed in long sequences in the JSA online database. Spence told reporters it was against company privacy policy to say who were the submitters, but did explain that a sequence means a group was submitted by one person or company.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by drcy

To Jason, JSA didn't give up any personal info about the submitters or identify them. The reporters discovered on their own that the serial numbers were listed in long sequences in the JSA online database. Spence told reporters it was against company privacy policy to say who were the submitters, but did explain that a sequence means a group was submitted by one person or company.

Thanks for the clarification, I did not see that

[Duluth Eskimo]

I am not upset about it, I just don't understand why a company authenticating signatures has anything to do with a common criminal like Winston violating NCAA rules. Other than submitting a few signed items here and there to them, I have no affiliation with JSA. It just seems like people have issues with the service itself, as good or bad as it might be. Either way, the issue should be with the athlete and the company that is encouraging the violation, not someone making a judgement that the signature is authentic.

The fact that JSA is providing private business information without a search warrant should bother people who do business with them. It is my understanding no crime has been committed, only an NCAA violation. If i found out that they were providing my previous business and information to others publicly I would be a little upset.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

It just seems like people have issues with the service itself, as good or bad as it might be.

This thread has nothing to do with that, nor did the ESPN report this morning, the link I posted, or anything else I read about this issue. It was about Winston, the submitter and JSA accepting them. If you think JSA was okay in accepting over 900 submissions of two item types, from a single submitter of a single college athlete's items, knowing from the Gurley experience that Winston would likely be in big trouble if caught, then fine.

If you want to argue about TPA services then please start another thread.

[itjclarke]

It's late, I'm tired and didn't read link.. but I definitely care about this and similar topics.

IMO it's ridiculous these guys cannot profit from their own signatures and/or their own names. Many of these guys (see names from the past--- Heath Shuler, Tim Tebow, Andre Ware, Ty Detmer... and very likely Johnny Manziel) will never have the opportunity to capitalize on their fame/popularity when it's at its peak in college. To those who argue- "they'll just get paid in the NFL", several college stars fail to ever make NFL rosters (Eric Crouch, Jason White, etc), and others who make NFL rosters typically have short lived careers and lack guaranteed contracts. It seems a joke the NCAA, the schools, the networks, gambling operations, memorabelia dealers, video game companies (props to Ed O'Bannon), anybody and everybody can make money off players and players' names, while the player cannot. If you don't want these guy paid while in school, then stick it in a fund/trust that the player can access once he leaves school, perhaps with partial payouts if he leaves early and incentives if he stays through graduation.

IMO the NCAA and NFL are neck and neck for the most evil, and hypocritical entities in US sports. I'm guilty of watching both, so I guess I'm a little hypocritical myself, but oh well.

[autograf]

Clearly JSA is in it solely for the money with no regard to the eligibility of ANY athlete. Guess I don't understand why a submitter had to have them done NOW which could lead someone to the assumption (rightly so) that he did a mass signing with the intent they would be sold which should invalidate his ineligibility. Manziel got away with something similar if I'm not mistaken. Not sure why they wouldn't have been submitted right after a bowl game which would have saved everyone a little headache.............

And I agree with Ian that they SHOULD be able to profit somewhat off their signatures, likenesses and/or names. It's their property, not that of the university. Granted they are getting an education which should somehow be measured against all of it, but there's too much money going into too few people's hands in the whole mess.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Tom and Ian, I agree 100%. Stupid as it is, that is currently the rule. The dealer that set this up and undermined the NCAA and the athlete should be punished if possible, but I don't know if there is much of a rule against it. I know David mentioned it earlier, but I guess I don't see how the NCAA would have any pull over someone not under their umbrella, IE: dealer.

In regards to your post Scott, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't really see why an authentication company should be in the business of holding a Florida dealer accountable for an NCAA rule. I see it as black and white, not blaming someone (JSA) for someone else's (insert dealer name) method of obtaining inventory. To do so makes an assumption that they don't really have any right to ask about. Bottom line, JSA's job is to evaluate a signature not make judgements on people. I guess that's your job

[packs]

I've heard the student athletes should get paid argument a lot lately. How do you guys feel about the fact that these student athletes, regardless of their future NFL earning abilities, attend schools that cost as much as $40,000 a year for no cost? If your average student is spending $160,000 over 4 years at these schools and you're paying nothing, isn't that enough of a gift?

Not all of these players are NFL prospects, but they receive the benefit of a cost free education. In my opinion if these guys want to start getting paid, they can start paying tuition and their scholarships should go to someone else.

[drcy]

For all JSA knew, the autographs were signed for a university sponsored charity.

[Runscott]

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