Cooperstown 1909 - Were Gandil, Chase & Cicotte Crooked in '09?

[Kenny Cole]

So a question. Are we using the rules as originally implemented in 1936? The reason I ask is that there was no waiting period then (not until 1945) and there was no character, integrity or sportsmanship provision until 1945 either. Whether or not those rules are considered to be in effect makes a pretty substantial difference in who I might vote for.

[Eric72]

OK, I will be the one...

I nominate Hal Chase.

He was eventually proven to be a crooked ballplayer; however, appears on five different T206 cards...including two of the six "Super Prints." The other four are Cobb, Evers, Chance, and Matty.

To me, that speaks to his popularity. And another Hal Chase card depicts him holding a trophy. Clearly, he was an early hobby darling. The ATC had their finger on the pulse of Baseball and knew what they were doing, right?

So, in summary, he was a great ballplayer in 1909, even if he was a bit shady. My opinion is that he would have been voted in. After all, induction into the Hall is just as much a popularity contest as anything else.

Best regards,

Eric

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by Eric72

OK, I will be the one...

I nominate Hal Chase.

He was eventually proven to be a crooked ballplayer; however, appears on five different T206 cards...including two of the six "Super Prints." The other four are Cobb, Evers, Chance, and Matty.

To me, that speaks to his popularity. And another Hal Chase card depicts him holding a trophy. Clearly, he was an early hobby darling. The ATC had their finger on the pulse of Baseball and knew what they were doing, right?

So, in summary, he was a great ballplayer in 1909, even if he was a bit shady. My opinion is that he would have been voted in. After all, induction into the Hall is just as much a popularity contest as anything else.

Best regards,

Eric

Eric,

Hal Chase was in fact the inspiration for this thread. I also believe that his penchant for throwing games related to gambling did not begin until 1910. And although regarded as one of the best firstbasemen in 1909, his playing career did not begin until 1905, so he probably should not be included here.
The same would apply to Cobb and a few others, whose body of work occurred after 1909.
Chase would probably have been selected for the 1909 All-Star team though. (Smell another thread here?)

[wolf441]

Buck Ewing and Mike "King" Kelly were certainly highly thought of in 1909. I'd also include Henry Chadwick and George and Harry Wright as they were well remembered at the time for their part in the development of the game.