OT: Did Adam Dunn ruin his Hall chances

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Slugging average. On base percentage. MUCH better by those metrics which were known well before the fancy WAR and OPS stuff.

.262 - his batting average wasn't HOF-caliber. Other stuff certainly was.

He was really good, but not great. Once they let Jackson in with his weak batting average, it helped promote the idea that 500 HR's was enough, and that nothing else counted - certainly batting average didn't. You could say that Reggie is one of the reasons that some people are talking about Dunn. Batting average obviously isn't important anymore.

[chaddurbin]

this is 2014, please stop talking about batting averages. next thing we're going to argue about is whether a pitcher with 12 wins deserve to win the CY?

this thread is about 200+ posts too many. a simple "no...because no one thought he was hof-material to start with" in the 2nd post would've suffice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

.262 - his batting average wasn't HOF-caliber. Other stuff certainly was.

He was really good, but not great. Once they let Jackson in with his weak batting average, it helped promote the idea that 500 HR's was enough, and that nothing else counted - certainly batting average didn't. You could say that Reggie is one of the reasons that some people are talking about Dunn. Batting average obviously isn't important anymore.

Killebrew was in a decade before Reggie with a BA in the .250s.

[Runscott]

That's true. I conveniently did not bring up Killebrew

Jackson was more consistent while Killebrew had some massive HR and RBI years - many more than Jackson. But you are right - .256 batting average was mediocre, and if I'm going to kick Jackson out for that, I would have to remove Killebrew as well. My bias is probably that I always liked Killebrew and never liked Jackson. Kind of a 'Kirby Puckett vs Albert Belle' sort of thing.

It would be an interesting exercise to de-vote members from the HOF each year, until it was about half it's current size. I think there are many members who would get kicked out before either Jackson or Killebrew.

[packs]

Out of 111 members who were voted in on a regular ballot (not veterans committee), Reggie has the 17th highest voting percentage. Granted, I never saw him play and wasn't around for his peak. I think you're right about the perfect storm of factors around him.

[Centauri]

In addition to excellent reg season stats, HOF worthy, he played in 5 WS, won 4 of those (was injured for the WS on one of those Oakland teams) with 2 WS MVPs. For the 5 he played in, 27 games, he had a 1.2 OPS. He had a 1.7 OPS in the 77 series. Roided out Barry is impressed with that.

On the very biggest stage the game offers - WS with the Yankees, he was very truly the straw that stirred the drink.

Jackson deserved every vote he got. Dunn is just a guy.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Centauri

In addition to excellent reg season stats, HOF worthy, he played in 5 WS, won 4 of those (was injured for the WS on one of those Oakland teams) with 2 WS MVPs. For the 5 he played in, 27 games, he had a 1.2 OPS. He had a 1.7 OPS in the 77 series. Roided out Barry is impressed with that.

On the very biggest stage the game offers - WS with the Yankees, he was very truly the straw that stirred the drink.

Jackson deserved every vote he got. Dunn is just a guy.

That's all true...and he batted .262

[Centauri]

LOL - just checked Dunn's WAR. In 14 seasons, he has a total of 16.9. He is barely better than average. Heck, Mike Hargrove had 30 as a player in the same number of seasons. Grover for the Hall!

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

Out of 111 members who were voted in on a regular ballot (not veterans committee), Reggie has the 17th highest voting percentage. Granted, I never saw him play and wasn't around for his peak. I think you're right about the perfect storm of factors around him.

No offense, but that means very little - the HOF is largely a popularity contest.