48 Leaf v. 48 Bowman

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Some interesting results tonight.... 2 mid-grade examples of one of the only two high numbered HOFers sold tonight. Interestingly, the 5 went higher than the 6, and both went a little low from the historicals I looked up. Do people think these may have gone low because there was a feeling they were trimmed? I do think the 5 was better centered than the 6, but still surprised by the results as people do care about registry ranking and the 6 didn't look bad to me. Thanks for any thoughts.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-Fo...vip=true&rt=nc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-Leaf-Fo...OIBUAA:US:1120

I was tracking those as well to see what would happen. To me, the results say a couple of things:

1. There have been a couple of "registry collectors" driving up HOF rookie prices bidding against each other. The results of these bidding wars are NOT indicative of the value of these cards overall. The prices for the cards sold last night are more in line with what I would expect.

2. The fact that the EX card (which I preferred as well) went for more than the EX/NM further supports #1. Those bidding on these cards were not looking at just the slab (for registry purposes) but instead the quality of the card and to me, the EX looks much better than the EX/NM so the bidders made the right call.

My 2 cents on it.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

That Jeff - that makes perfect sense - glad not to see the word "trimmed" in your reply. It really shows timing is everything - I can't imagine 2 Bednariks going that cheap, but I also think Bednarik is more condition sensitive.

On a side note, I won a Doak Walker in that auction - I decided to slowly go for the 48 Leaf set in low grade. Here is a link to my progress: http://www.psacard.com/PSASetRegistr....aspx?s=180903

[TanksAndSpartans]

A bunch of these auctions ending soon, mostly in high grade.... How many of them are ok? After reading this thread and seeing all the extra space in some of the cases, it's hard for me to feel good about them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141688373492

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

A bunch of these auctions ending soon, mostly in high grade.... How many of them are ok? After reading this thread and seeing all the extra space in some of the cases, it's hard for me to feel good about them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141688373492

The case size is the case size so if some of them have extra space between the card and the case edge, I would avoid them completely. Too many trimmed Leafs to take a chance if they look short.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Jeff - I find this more discouraging than ever recently. I understand it's not realistic to hold a TPG to that high of a standard - it is a business after all rather than an entity based on altruistically helping a fellow collector, but if they can't weed out trimmed cards, it's very disappointing. I wonder how many high grade Chicles are trimmed. Given the year issued, the marginal popularity of football, the fact that every card touched a stick of gum and thus I wouldn't expect unopened to be in great shape, etc. has me thinking there may be more cards with sharp corners out there than can logically be explained.

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by DezHood

Thanks Jeff - I find this more discouraging than ever recently. I understand it's not realistic to hold a TPG to that high of a standard - it is a business after all rather than an entity based on altruistically helping a fellow collector, but if they can't weed out trimmed cards, it's very disappointing. I wonder how many high grade Chicles are trimmed. Given the year issued, the marginal popularity of football, the fact that every card touched a stick of gum and thus I wouldn't expect unopened to be in great shape, etc. has me thinking there may be more cards with sharp corners out there than can logically be explained.

Finding trimmed cards is not an exact science as some sets vary in size enough that you can't base it just on dimensions. If you examine the edges closely you can *sometimes* see differences in the edge cut or an edge with a whiter color than the others that can point toward trimming. Leafs are particularly tough because they can be oversized, allowing a card doctor to trim them and not come even close to the minimum dimensions allowed so the edges are possibly never even checked closely by some TPGs.

I don't believe Chicles have the same issue as Leafs but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of undersized, trimmed Chicles out there.

jeff

[Publius]

Originally Posted by DezHood

A bunch of these auctions ending soon, mostly in high grade.... How many of them are ok? After reading this thread and seeing all the extra space in some of the cases, it's hard for me to feel good about them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/141688373492

This thread was fun to re read.

I win three cards in that Leaf auction I thought looked good, but there were a few that were definitely trimmed and holdered.
Like Jeff said the leafs are more likely trimmed than Chicles, but they're out there, even in mid grade. I think we had a thread once about what the price break on a card was to warrant someone working on it, and $20 was mentioned. It's worth so,wines time to trim or work on a card to make $15 ( after purchase and grading). Oh well

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks Joe and Jeff. Appreciate the replies - makes me feel a little better.

Joe, are you going to analyze those 3 Leafs further once you have them in hand? I'd be interested in knowing your process and whether they passed/failed.

[TanksAndSpartans]

For anyone who hasn't seen it, thanks to Joe, the issue with doctored 48 Leaf football cards is now published. The Winter 2015 issue of GridIron Greats includes an article titled "The 1948 Leaf Set and Its Love Affair with Card Doctors".

One thing I had believed with regard to PSA holdering and now I'm questioning is I thought PSA had holders for each set which would mean any graded small card would be visible from excess room in the holder and may even have a mylar to hold it in place. With the amount of variation in this set, I'm wondering if different sized holders are used. When I refer to size, (I think for cards, the holders are the same size with exceptions like Tall Boys, etc.), so what I mean is the amount of real estate within the holder for the card itself.

Finally, I hope the TPG companies read this! I wonder to what extent if any this has ever been on their radar. Leaf also had boxing and baseball cards - also wondering if sizing was an issue for their other sets.

[Beansballcardblog]

Originally Posted by DezHood

For anyone who hasn't seen it, thanks to Joe, the issue with doctored 48 Leaf football cards is now published. The Winter 2015 issue of GridIron Greats includes an article titled "The 1948 Leaf Set and Its Love Affair with Card Doctors".

One thing I had believed with regard to PSA holdering and now I'm questioning is I thought PSA had holders for each set which would mean any graded small card would be visible from excess room in the holder and may even have a mylar to hold it in place. With the amount of variation in this set, I'm wondering if different sized holders are used. When I refer to size, I think for cards the holders are the same size, so what I mean ids the amount of real estate within the holder for the card itself.

Finally, I hope the TPG companies read this! I wonder to what extent if any this has ever been on their radar. Leaf also had boxing and baseball cards - also wondering if sizing was an issue for their other sets.

Can't wait to read it. I ordered my copy on Tuesday!