An evidence based discussion about the players who've been overlooked for Cooperstown

[BearBailey]

I never understood how Jim Rice got in and Dwight Evans basically wasn't considered. I would take Evans over Rice every time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

"You don't have to agree, that's fine."

And neither does anyone else except one guy who voted for him once. But don't let that deter you.

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by BearBailey

I never understood how Jim Rice got in and Dwight Evans basically wasn't considered. I would take Evans over Rice every time.

I'll take Rice. Rice put his career numbers together in 14 years ( discounting 20 games his first season and 56 games his last season for 16 years total ) that took Evans almost 20 years to do. Rice wan't bad in the field, and was fun to watch at the plate.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Evans had a significantly better on base percentage and was more consistent, although of course he didn't have those several massive power years, just one I believe. A much better fielder too. Close call.

[steve B]

That was a really interesting look at his hitting. I really liked him as a player, but never considered him as more than a bit above average as a hitter. Consistently above average, but not amazing. (I got to see a lot of games, and Rice was amazing. Evans was simply dependable. )

I did think his defense was much more impressive. Enough to illustrate some of the challenges for defensive stats. He only led in RF assists three times mostly early in his career. Doubleplays as an outfielder first twice, second twice. But that misses how many times opposing players simply didn't try for an extra base. I could recall it wrong, but I think he's also among the few RF to throw a runner out at first on an apparent hit. The closest I've seen since is Ichiro who has about the same arm.

Some of the offensive stuff misses a bit that's also hard to put into data.
He didn't steal many bases. But the RedSox in the 70's and 80's were a team that really didn't steal much at all. Generally in the bottom 5 in the Al, and in the late 70's -mid 80's usually last.

One of the things that probably hurt his chances is that he was really not a flashy guy at all. Not much of a favorite with the press either.

The way the team handled his retirement was like most Boston players who retired around the same time very poor. Yes, it was really time to retire for him and Stanley and Rice. But after an entire career somewhere not being given the chance to bow out gracefully and simply having it announced around September that they wouldn't be signed for the next year was taken as the insult it was. There could have been some behind the scenes refusal to retire that the public never heard about, but essentially cutting them was the teams way of running them down so the fans would feel ok about them not coming back. Many of the players who left back then wouldn't have anything to do with the team for several years. Rice didn't even show up for Jim Rice/Bob Stanley day. (Stanley didn't want to either but did for the fans. The coolest moment was after the speeches they said wait a mimute there's one more thing. And tossed him a beach ball. As hed done so often with ones that left the stands he caught it and popped it with his pocketknife. Got a standing o for that but not for any of the speeches. ) No old timers games, no broadcast positions nothing. That they're back doing that sort of stuff is all the current owners doing.

Some of the press bought into that. So the attitude was that they stuck around long after they should have left.
Another example of the press fickleness was Rice, failing as he got older it was mentioned that he might need glasses. He did. And he got some. Really unstylish horrid glasses. But he was hitting again. And the articles were mostly about how silly his glasses looked so he abandoned them. And stopped hitting. A bit weak yes, but he just couldn't catch a break from them.

And those are the same guys who were voting -Or not voting- for their local guys. Probably not voting.

That was right around the time I realized it wasn't a hall of fame, wasn't a hall of stats, but a hall of popularity with the press as long as you had stats that were marginally acceptable. Bill Lee should be in based on quotable lines, but just didn't put up the numbers.

Steve B