Ray Lewis on Ray Rice

[packs]

His observations on race relations were valid, but he expressed himself very poorly. And as noted by the press, the way he expressed himself made it seem as though he valued one race of fans over another, which is clearly not a viewpoint the NBA supports.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

His observations on race relations were valid, but he expressed himself very poorly. And as noted by the press, the way he expressed himself made it seem as though he valued one race of fans over another, which is clearly not a viewpoint the NBA supports.

The big money is in group ticket sales and that usually means Corporations and that usually means white. His intention was neither black nor white, but green.

[packs]

Sure, but like I said he expressed himself very poorly.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

His observations on race relations were valid, but he expressed himself very poorly. And as noted by the press, the way he expressed himself made it seem as though he valued one race of fans over another, which is clearly not a viewpoint the NBA supports.

I disagree. He stated that there wasn't a big enough fan base among blacks to support the team completely by themselves. He wanted both black and white, and expressed his frustration that that probably wasn't a business option in Atlanta, which seems to me to be less racist than wanting to have a team of predominantly black fans.

Switch 'black' and 'white' in his email, and tell me it still sounds racist.

[drcy]

If he had instead emailed that there were too many men attending the basketball games and he wanted to increase the percentage of women who attend, there would not only be no controversy but the effort would likely be applauded.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drcy

If he had instead emailed that there were too many men attending the basketball games and he wanted to increase the percentage of women who attend, there would not only be no controversy but the effort would likely be applauded.

Or if he said that he didn't like white basketball fans as much, and he was thinking of implementing a program to get rid of them and increase black attendance....NBA Owner of the Year.

[packs]

I don't know guys. You're talking about marginalized African Americans and women and somehow equating their experience to that of white men in America. Doesn't seem to match up.

You posted a general summary of what he said. Not what he actually said. Which was that he believed African Americans don't have money, scare white people, the cheerleading team is too black, and even the kiss cam is too black. That's not a good way of expressing your views on racial divide in your city.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know guys. You're talking about marginalized African Americans and women and somehow equating their experience to that of white men in America. Doesn't seem to match up.

You posted a general summary of what he said. Not what he actually said. Which was that he believed African Americans don't have money, scare white people, the cheerleading team is too black, and even the kiss cam is too black. That's not a good way of expressing your views on racial divide in your city.

You also have posted your interpretations of his words, with some spin, and not what he said.

I have no idea whether or not the blacks in questioned are 'marginalized'. I do now that, having lived in the Atlanta area for 12 years, and Seattle for 8, that the race dynamics thing is hugely different between the two areas, and it has to do mainly with specific attitudes in the two geographies. Questions as to what race fans are would never come up in Seattle, whereas it is obviously somewhat important in Atlanta. There are reasons for that, and fault lies on both sides. I'm telling you this from experience, not from theory.

I'm not going to go dig up the email, but I don't believe he said that African Americans don't have money, only that there weren't enough of them interested in spending it on basketball, and that's key - he was running a business, which required that he get more attendance. The 'primarily black' formula wasn't/isn't working. Your comment that he said "the cheerleading team is too black" is also a bit misleading - he wanted some white cheerleaders so it didn't look like his team was designed only for black fans. What is wrong with that?

Nothing either of us have said has or will change the facts in Atlanta.

I think the owner used the 'LA Clippers debacle' to get out of being an owner of the Hawks. He knew that if he published that email and volunteered to sell, he'd be allowed off the hook quickly and painlessly. Bye bye bad business situation.

[packs]

Here's where he implied that he believes African Americans don't have money:

"And many of our black fans don’t have the spendable income which explains why our f&b and merchandise sales are so low. At all white thrasher games sales were nearly triple what they are at hawks games (the extra intermission explains some of that but not all)."

This statement is not based in fact or studies, just his impression that the reason they aren't selling more merchandise is because African Americans don't have any money. It says nothing about not wanting to spend money on the Hawks. It just assumes there's no money to be spent. But of course all the white people have tons of money to throw around.

All I'm trying to point out is that even if he had some valid points, they were all overshadowed by the language he used to express them.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't know guys. You're talking about marginalized African Americans and women and somehow equating their experience to that of white men in America. Doesn't seem to match up.

You posted a general summary of what he said. Not what he actually said. Which was that he believed African Americans don't have money, scare white people, the cheerleading team is too black, and even the kiss cam is too black. That's not a good way of expressing your views on racial divide in your city.

Here is, at least, a portion of what he said:

Bruce Levenson, the managing partner of the Atlanta Hawks, became the second NBA owner in the past five months on Sunday to surrender his franchise over racially insensitive remarks.

In a statement, Levenson announced his intent to sell his controlling stake in the team and apologized for a 2012 e-mail regarding the Hawks’ attendance problems and inability to attract suburban whites that included “inappropriate and offensive” comments.

“My theory is that the black crowd scared away the whites and there are simply not enough affluent black fans to build a significant season ticket base,” Levenson wrote in the e-mail, which also claimed that the Hawks were attracting an “overwhelming black audience” and noted that “there are few fathers and sons at the games.”

No one I know, black or white, is comfortable being the 'overwhelming' racial minority in any social situation. Most of us are more comfortable when the crowd racial makeup has us in the majority or at least about even. That's a natural feeling and there is nothing is wrong with it. Anyone who thinks that is racism has problems of their own in that area.

[packs]

I just don't see how you can dismiss the stereotyping going on in his statements. Look at how he assumed there are few fathers and sons at games because of the African American audience. That is not based in any kind of fact. It is an extension of the long held stereotype that African Americans are dead beat dads. That statement alone is so problematic I don't see how you could get past it without rolling your eyes.