OT: Trout vs. Mantle

[Peter_Spaeth]

When there are 96 versions of a player's rookie card, it's hard for me to get excited because the player puts some chicken scratch illegible "autograph "on a sticker that gets attached to the card and the manufacturer decides to print only 10 of a particular color.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When there are 96 versions of a player's rookie card, it's hard for me to get excited because the player puts some chicken scratch illegible "autograph "on a sticker that gets attached to the card and the manufacturer decides to print only 10 of a particular color.

Stop it Peter - you're making my heart race.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Typical modern autograph card. 4 years at Stanford?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mr. Trout has a damn nice sig too!!

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When there are 96 versions of a player's rookie card, it's hard for me to get excited because the player puts some chicken scratch illegible "autograph "on a sticker that gets attached to the card and the manufacturer decides to print only 10 of a particular color.

As opposed to standing in a line for an hour, and paying $100 for Mickey Mantle to sign his card in between trips to the bar.

BTW, there's no sticker in the Trout card I posted, or the one you posted. That's why I prefer the Bowman Chrome cards. They're always on card autos.

[the 'stache]

Although, I will give you that at least when Mantle signed his card, it was a legible signature. If it were up to me, Topps would cut the number of signed cards down to about 1/5 so the person signing would take their time so you could actually read who it is signing. Trout's not even the worst signature out there, as sad as that may be.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The difference speaks volumes, to me. A 21 year old being paid megamilions can't even bother to sign his 9 letter name. Pathetic.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The difference speaks volumes, to me. A 21 year old being paid megamilions can't even bother to sign his 9 letter name. Pathetic.

You know I was just giving you a hard time. We're on the same page. Though, I don't know how much of the fault I'd lay at Trout's feet. When they had him come in to sign, he likely did the nearly 3,000 Bowman Chrome cards in one sitting. Then he had to do the Bowman Sterling and Platinum stickers, though they were probably done at a different time.

I think the most blame should be laid at the feet of the card companies. Autos sell their ridiculously expensive boxes. Something like Topps Museum, or Topps Tier 1, will cost upwards of $200 a box. And you get like 8 cards per box.

Topps owns Bowman. They are the only company with the MLB license agreement. The other card companies cannot use team logos. So Topps can print as many different sets as they want every year, and they're out of control. Per my count (and I may be missing something), Topps will have released a total of 25 different baseball lines by the end of the season. Think I'm kidding?

Sports Card Radio release calendar 2014

Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Draft Picks & Prospects
Bowman Sterling
Bowman Platinum
Topps Chrome
Topps Series 1 & 2
Topps Elite
Topps Museum
Topps Tier 1
Topps Heritage
Allen & Ginter
Topps Tribute
Topps Turkey Red
Gypsy Queen
Topps Opening Day
Topps MLB Chipz
Topps Pro Debut Baseball
Topps Archives Baseball
Topps Finest Baseball
Topps Heritage Minor League
Topps Supreme Baseball
Topps Update Baseball
Topps Stadium Club Baseball
Topps Dynasty Baseball
Topps High Tek Baseball
Topps Five Star Baseball

And almost all these lines will want Trout to sign. Yes, Trout signs the contract, but think of how many stupid autos he has to sign. It's ridiculous.

Remember when you collected as a kid, Peter? Remember when it was possible to do a master collection of your favorite player? You may have had only Topps. You may have had Topps, Donruss and Fleer. You may have also had Upper Deck. But each released one set. It wasn't hard to get the 4 cards for your favorite player.

Now it's next to impossible to get all the players, or even anywhere near all the players. Trout is in his third season. Know how many cards are listed on his Beckett checklist?

2,282
The number of Mike Trout cards in Beckett's database.

Good luck trying to get those, kid.

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

You know I was just giving you a hard time. We're on the same page. Though, I don't know how much of the fault I'd lay at Trout's feet. When they had him come in to sign, he likely did the nearly 3,000 Bowman Chrome cards in one sitting. Then he had to do the Bowman Sterling and Platinum stickers, though they were probably done at a different time.

I think the most blame should be laid at the feet of the card companies. Autos sell their ridiculously expensive boxes. Something like Topps Museum, or Topps Tier 1, will cost upwards of $200 a box. And you get like 8 cards per box.

Topps owns Bowman. They are the only company with the MLB license agreement. The other card companies cannot use team logos. So Topps can print as many different sets as they want every year, and they're out of control. Per my count (and I may be missing something), Topps will have released a total of 25 different baseball lines by the end of the season. Think I'm kidding?

Sports Card Radio release calendar 2014

Bowman, Bowman Chrome, Bowman Draft Picks & Prospects
Bowman Sterling
Bowman Platinum
Topps Chrome
Topps Series 1 & 2
Topps Elite
Topps Museum
Topps Tier 1
Topps Heritage
Allen & Ginter
Topps Tribute
Topps Turkey Red
Gypsy Queen
Topps Opening Day
Topps MLB Chipz
Topps Pro Debut Baseball
Topps Archives Baseball
Topps Finest Baseball
Topps Heritage Minor League
Topps Supreme Baseball
Topps Update Baseball
Topps Stadium Club Baseball
Topps Dynasty Baseball
Topps High Tek Baseball
Topps Five Star Baseball

And almost all these lines will want Trout to sign. Yes, Trout signs the contract, but think of how many stupid autos he has to sign. It's ridiculous.

Remember when you collected as a kid, Peter? Remember when it was possible to do a master collection of your favorite player? You may have had only Topps. You may have had Topps, Donruss and Fleer. You may have also had Upper Deck. But each released one set. It wasn't hard to get the 4 cards for your favorite player.

Now it's next to impossible to get all the players, or even anywhere near all the players. Trout is in his third season. Know how many cards are listed on his Beckett checklist?

2,282
The number of Mike Trout cards in Beckett's database.

Good luck trying to get those, kid.

True Hobby Bliss ended with the 1981 issues...how appropriate there was also a players strike that year.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bill, that is startling, truly. And I thought 2001 and the number of Pujols cards was out of control -- last time I paid any attention to the shiny stuff.

[ctownboy]

IMHO, steroids killed the bunt. Yes, managers are still stupid enough too call for position players to lay down a sac bunt but most of them can't even do that.

In the pre-steroid era, guys knew the strengths and weaknesses and also their place on the team. Little guys with no power were supposed to make contact and either get on base or move guys over for the power guys. The power guys were supposed to swing for the fences and not take marginal pitches that may or may not be called balls.

Then the Steroid Era happened.

After that, EVERYBODY was swinging for the fences. They didn't care about fundamentals only get extra base hits. Why? MONEY!!!!!

The more power you displayed, the bigger your arbitration raises were, the bigger your free agent contracts were, the bigger your contract extensions were and the more likely you were to be able to stick around a few years after you normally would have retired.

So, for almost 20 years, guys got into the habit of swinging away and NOT caring about striking out or doing things fundamentally right. Why should they? Doing things the fundamentally RIGHT way took real work and practice. Not much work or practice needed to take steroids, lift weights and then swing from the heels EVERY plate appearance.

Because of that, the same attitude has trickled down to the lowest levels of baseball. Young kids now don't want to work at things. They just want to swing away.

This is why if I were an owner of a MLB team, I would MAKE guys at the lowest level learn how to bunt, at least for hits. If they didn't or couldn't, I would either trade them away or ORDER the managers to NOT have them try and bunt.

David

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

When there are 96 versions of a player's rookie card, it's hard for me to get excited because the player puts some chicken scratch illegible "autograph "on a sticker that gets attached to the card and the manufacturer decides to print only 10 of a particular color.

A collecting friend of mine had a discussion similar to this back in the early to mid-nineties. One problem with Trout cards is that there are so many of them, which unavoidably fragments demand. You can't look at a gold refractor rookie and say, "well, there's only 50 of them" and have that fact be meaningful, when he may have 89 other "rookies," which will satisfy the demand for many collectors. Our conclusion was that it essentially does not matter if you produce a million of the same card for the player's rookie, or a million different cards, one of each. The value will be the same.

Sincerely,

Larry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by ls7plus

A collecting friend of mine had a discussion similar to this back in the early to mid-nineties. One problem with Trout cards is that there are so many of them, which unavoidably fragments demand. You can't look at a gold refractor rookie and say, "well, there's only 50 of them" and have that fact be meaningful, when he may have 89 other "rookies," which will satisfy the demand for many collectors. Our conclusion was that it essentially does not matter if you produce a million of the same card for the player's rookie, or a million different cards, one of each. The value will be the same.

Sincerely,

Larry

Well put. The manufacturers seem to have done a good job of creating artificial demand for cards artificially limited in supply, but I have my doubts whether those values will really persist. For example, there's nothing particularly valuable about a Mike Trout autograph, I am sure by the time he's done he will have signed countless times, if he has not already. And there's nothing inherently meaningful about a gold versus silver versus blue card; one could create the same artificial scarcity by putting out a regular version of a card and a few with a red dot. So what?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And there's nothing inherently meaningful about a gold versus silver versus blue card; one could create the same artificial scarcity by putting out a regular version of a card and a few with a red dot. So what?

Funny you mention that, because I read countless threads all the time on here about dots on T206's and if they are errors and what not.


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