Tim Kurkjian and the greatest SS's

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Tabe

That's a bit of a stretch, I think. He's a career .308 hitter with a .465 slugging % in the playoffs. Those are fine numbers, to be sure. But they pale next to Carlos Beltran (.333 & .683), Ruth, Gehrig, and (I'm sure) many others I'm forgetting. Jeter has very impressive totals - all-time leader in PAs, hits, doubles, triples, 3rd in homers, etc - but those are all the result of his having played a full season's worth of games in the postseason, not because he was particularly great in the postseason. In fact, in all the numbers that measure a player's RATE at doing something (average, OBP, slugging, etc), Jeter isn't in the top 10 in anything.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/po..._batting.shtml

I would definitely include Jeter as one of the all time greats in post season history. Unfortunately, he won't rank in the top 10 in any postseason metric because there are so many players with smaller sample sizes than Jeter has had.

An example! Do you know who leads all players in post season OPS? The great Willie Aikens does! He has played in 12 post season games, but man did he shine

Derek Jeter has played virtually one full season (158 games) and has put together numbers that are better than his 162 game averages! That's pretty damn impressive!


Hits
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 205
Playoff 158 Game Total: 200

Runs
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 115
Playoff 158 Game Total: 111

Doubles
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 32
Playoff 158 Game Total: 32

Home Runs
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 15
Playoff 158 Game Total: 20

RBI
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 77
Playoff 158 Game Total: 61

Stolen Bases
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 21
Playoff 158 Game Total: 18

Walks
Regular Season 162 Game Average: 64
Playoff 158 Game Total: 66

Batting Average
Regular Season 162 Game Average: .311
Playoff 158 Game Total: .308

On Base Percentage
Regular Season 162 Game Average: .379
Playoff 158 Game Total: .374

Slugging Percentage
Regular Season 162 Game Average: .442
Playoff 158 Game Total: .465

OPS
Regular Season 162 Game Average: .821
Playoff 158 Game Total: .838

The fact that Jeter was able to play at such a constant level (and even slightly higher level) than he normally played during his career with such a huge sample size speaks volumes! When you even consider the stronger pitching matchups in the playoffs and the level of pressure, it's absolutely astonishing!

I'm not saying he was the best postseason player all time, but he is certainly up there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

An interesting exercise would be to take the players with enough plate appearances to be a truly meaningful sample -- I assume such a list would include Ortiz, Ramirez, Chipper, possibly Alomar and Justice, other Yankees like Williams and Posada and maybe O'Neill -- and see how they stack up.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

An interesting exercise would be to take the players with enough plate appearances to be a truly meaningful sample -- I assume such a list would include Ortiz, Ramirez, Chipper, possibly Alomar and Justice, other Yankees like Williams and Posada and maybe O'Neill -- and see how they stack up.

Well, without getting too deep into it...

There are 8 players with over 300 career post season at bats and their career post season OPS compared to their regular season OPS is ranked below:

(Postseason OPS / Regular Season OPS)

Manny Ramirez: .937 / .996
Chipper Jones: .864 / .930
Bernie Williams: .850 / .858
Derek Jeter: .838 / .821
Jorge Posada: .745 / .848
David Justice: .717 / .878
Tino Martinez: .672 / .815
Kenny Lofton: .667 / .794

Jeter is ranked fourth, but is surrounded by some impressive company. Also, it looks like Jeter was the only player above to play at a higher rate during the post season vs. regular season. If that's not clutch, I don't know what is.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Well, without getting too deep into it...

There are 8 players with over 300 career post season at bats and their career post season OPS compared to their regular season OPS is ranked below:

(Postseason OPS / Regular Season OPS)

Manny Ramirez: .937 / .996
Chipper Jones: .864 / .930
Bernie Williams: .850 / .858
Derek Jeter: .838 / .821
Jorge Posada: .745 / .848
David Justice: .717 / .878
Tino Martinez: .672 / .815
Kenny Lofton: .667 / .794

Jeter is ranked fourth, but is surrounded by some impressive company. Also, it looks like Jeter was the only player above to play at a higher rate during the post season vs. regular season. If that's not clutch, I don't know what is.

Seriously? Having a post season OPS that is .017 higher than your career regular season OPS is "clutch"?

"Congratulations, Derek Jeter, for having a post season OPS that is marginally higher than your regular season OPS. That is the very definition of clutch."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Seriously? Having a post season OPS that is .017 higher than your career regular season OPS is "clutch"?

"Congratulations, Derek Jeter, for having a post season OPS that is marginally higher than your regular season OPS. That is the very definition of clutch."

I think you miss the point. It's probably much harder to hit in the post season as you are up against only elite teams and shortened pitching rotations. So yes, it is impressive to play as well as you did in the regular season and all those meaningless games against second division teams etc.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by the 'stache

Seriously? Having a post season OPS that is .017 higher than your career regular season OPS is "clutch"?

"Congratulations, Derek Jeter, for having a post season OPS that is marginally higher than your regular season OPS. That is the very definition of clutch."

When some of the best players in the sport drop .067 OPS points on average (or 12%) and you manage to be the ONLY player to improve your game in the playoffs. Yes, that makes you clutch.