Doug Allen and John Rogers Cooperated with the Feds!

[tennisguy]

Forgive me if this was already answered, but what is Legendary's future?

[ullmandds]

if one were shilled by legendary...can anything be done at this point?

[Matt E.]

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Matt E.

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

I'd think the perceived value of Bonds doing community service was a factor. 250 hours of talks about not doing peds by someone who had been a big deal public figure is meaningful.

I can't think of what anyone in the auction biz could offer. Hundreds of hours of talks about "Don't shill and fake memorabilia and REALLY don't cheat the feds on cooperation" seems a bit less interesting in a general sense.

Steve Birmingham

[Runscott]

I met Doug and Mark for the first time, in Cleveland last week. The crime subject never came up - just sat around drinking beer and telling stories. Later, some of us tried to figure how this could have happened. Like most in the hobby, if I find someone personable, it's tough to think of them as criminals.

I believe the answer can be found right here on Net54. We had a thread a while back that discussed whether or not it was okay for some of the big dealers to shill their own auctions, to permit shilling, or for us to bid on their items, knowing that they were shilling. If you go back and read that thread, and try to think of things from the perspective of the accused dealers, and then try to think of things from the perspective of those who defended them, as well as their right to bid in their auctions, things should make perfect sense. Doesn't make it right, but there are enough dealers and collectors who think it's okay to 'play the game', to keep 'the game' going. The Feds are the only ones who seem willing to stop it (and guys like Jeff).

[Hankphenom]

Some people are honest and some aren't, simple as that. Depends on what you think is important and how you look at the world and your place in it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I met Doug and Mark for the first time, in Cleveland last week. The crime subject never came up - just sat around drinking beer and telling stories. Later, some of us tried to figure how this could have happened. Like most in the hobby, if I find someone personable, it's tough to think of them as criminals.

I believe the answer can be found right here on Net54. We had a thread a while back that discussed whether or not it was okay for some of the big dealers to shill their own auctions, to permit shilling, or for us to bid on their items, knowing that they were shilling. If you go back and read that thread, and try to think of things from the perspective of the accused dealers, and then try to think of things from the perspective of those who defended them, as well as their right to bid in their auctions, things should make perfect sense. Doesn't make it right, but there are enough dealers and collectors who think it's okay to 'play the game', to keep 'the game' going. The Feds are the only ones who seem willing to stop it (and guys like Jeff).

And where is the answer right here on Net54 for misrepresenting memorabilia and obstructing justice?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

And where is the answer right here on Net54 for misrepresenting memorabilia and obstructing justice?

I don't know - I don't have all the answers for you, but I'll keep trying

[calvindog]

Scott, I agree completely. When the Mastro fraud-related issues first popped up on Net 54 in 2007, the amount of jackass comments either protecting Mastro and Allen, refusing to admit they were defrauded or attempting to rationalize their behavior was nothing short of stunning to me. In addition, anyone who dared to criticize them -- imcluding reporters who simply reported what the Feds were doing in their investigation -- were castigated beyond belief. Mastro backers would twist themselves into pretzels to explain away the fraud, usually because those backers either conspired on crooked auctions with Doug and Bill or just desperately thought they needed Doug and Bill for some future financial purpose. Naturally, what else could Doug or Bill think about their purported "fraud" victims but that they didn't mind being abused. Even after Bill plead guilty and agreed to cooperate he STILL claimed victim status. The reaction of their useful idiot victims surely assisted in creating the delusional state Doug and Bill enjoyed.

All of these arguments from Doug now fall flat -- he actively obstructed justice in a way that rivals fixing a jury. This is no mere lying under oath to save your skin, this is much worse. I have no doubt that the judge in this case will agree with this position. This sort of obstruction doesn't happen every day and it really is shocking. Had Doug not been such an arrogant, entitled thief 90% of his problems wouldn't exist today. But Doug is Doug, just like Bill is Bill and John Rogers is John Rogers. They simply cannot tell the truth and any effort to challenge them is met with an avalanche of attacks -- some even from their hobby friends on Net 54.

[brob28]

Originally Posted by Matt E.

Will the obstruction of justice by Doug Allen be viewed differently by the judge compared to others who lie?

If I remember correctly wasn't Barry Bonds convicted of obstruction of justice for his testimony in front of the grand jury during the BALCO steroid scandal?
Bonds received two years' probation, 250 hours of community service, a $4,000 fine and a month of monitored home confinement.


Matt E.

From what I can tell from the article the difference is Bonds never agreed to cooperate with the Feds. Allen agreed to cooperate and then obstructed justice by tipping Allen off. Attorney's: could new charges be filed as a result of this?