DBacks- dirty play against McCutchen

[steve B]

Thanks for clarifying. The articles certainly didn't.

It makes a lot more sense all around that way.
I am in favor of old time baseball stuff, as long as it makes sense. The way the articles had it it looked like retaliation for an accident rather than a message about coming too far in without good control in a situation where it's not really needed.

I do have to say the worst I saw was Gaston ordering some young pitcher to hit a batter, continuing to order it after he failed 2-3 times, then leaving the rattled kid in to take a huge beating since he couldn't pitch anymore. The pitcher was actually coming off the mound gesturing that he wanted out and had no idea what was going on. And Gaston turned away from the field and ignored him the whole time. The announcers were horrified, even the umpire kept looking into the dugout but not actually interfering. And I think the other team actually laid off and ended the inning after scoring a bunch of runs.

Steve B

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Goldy was hit with one out and nobody on in the bottom of the ninth of a 9-4 loss. I was "lucky" enough to have been there. His AB was meaningless due to a bullpen explosion that allowed a 4-4 tie to get out of hand; ironically, he had been given the night off but entered in the 9th in a double switch.

I doubt it was intentional, but it knocked out the Dbacks' best player for the season. If the message was to let the Pirates know not to throw inside unless you can control it, then I would say the message was received. If you don't believe in such messages then fine, I get it, but it has been going on in baseball for a long time and I would not look for it to end soon. BTW, it was the exact time to send that message-- hit the equivalent player when the game is not on the line and when you had an open base. Hit him in a relatively safe spot--the butt is preferred but not where you might break a bone.

Oh and by the way, guess who leads MLB in hitting batters this season-- the Pirates by a large margin with 61-- the next closest is 49. They have almost twice as many as Arizona (32). So Pirates fans, prepare to have your players get plunked on a regular basis if your staff is doing more of the same, and maybe think twice before starting the name calling.

[Matthew80]

Ultimately, Pittsburgh is responsible for players they plunk, accident or not. Frieri can't control his pitches (trust me, I'm an Angels fan). Pittsburgh knew this could happen, but they evidently felt it was worth gambling knowing they could hurt an AZ batter... Snake eyes... If you're a MLB-er, you should really be able to avoid hitting someone, even if that means you can't throw certain pitches and/or in certain locations on the plate.

Never pull your punches in war, baseball included.

[nolemmings]

By the way, I couldn't help but notice this newspaper headline just ten days before Goldschmidt got hit: "Dodgers’ Justin Turner airs concerns after another beanball war, loss to Pirates".
http://www.dailynews.com/sports/2014...oss-to-pirates

In it the author reports:

Turner’s left elbow was struck by a 97-mph fastball from Pittsburgh Pirates pitcher Justin Wilson in the seventh inning Tuesday. Two Pirates batters were also hit by pitches in the Dodgers’ 12-7 loss.

This, after four different players were hit by pitches over the weekend in St. Louis. Hanley Ramirez and Yasiel Puig still haven’t played since being drilled and left with swollen left hands.

Of course, none of these involved those dirty Diamondbacks.

He goes on to say that McCutchen had been hit earlier--by a sinker no less--to load the bases, and suggests the obvious, that it was not intentional. Nonetheless,

Wilson threw two inside pitches to Turner to start the seventh inning, the second one hitting Turner’s elbow guard. In his postgame comments to reporters, Pirates manager Clint Hurdle suggested that Wilson was merely trying to pitch hard inside.

Home plate umpire Toby Basner didn’t buy it. He ejected Wilson, warned both benches, then ejected Hurdle for arguing.

So again Pirates fans, say hello to Mrs. Kettle, and look in the mirror before taking shots at other teams.

[clydepepper]

I pitched in high school, college, and semi-pro and never liked this part of the game...as a lefty, I hit enough people without trying to.

When they did get hit, not only did they know it was accidental, they had more pressing things to think about than coming after me.

I never participated in any bean-ball 'wars', nor was I ever asked to.

Toward the end of what would be called my career, I had much better control and probably could have hit someone on purpose, but make it look like an accident, but, to me, it was just adding another baserunner...and who needs that.

I remember when Pendleton stalked off the field in the middle of an inning when a pitcher who only got to pitch about once a month, refused to retaliate for Deion Sanders being hit.

The team captain leaving the field in the middle of an inning!? I lost all respect for Pendleton that day.

[ooo-ribay]

There's a reason they're known as the D-Bags.

[nolemmings]

Really? What's that? Anything constructive to offer, or do you just like to run your mouth?

[D. Bergin]

AZ's best player is out for an extended period of time. McCutchen was plunked in the back.

Pretty silly the abuse the Diamondbacks and Gibson gets, considering they are at the bottom of the league in hit batters, and the Pirates are at the top. You pitch inside and plunk guys, put them on the disabled list, you're going to get plunked back. Just rest assured that when it's actually done on purpose there seems to be a much less chance of injury in the process.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Really? What's that? Anything constructive to offer, or do you just like to run your mouth?

Buck Showalter
Fraudulent fan base
MLB (i.e. Bud Selig) co-signing a loan to let them buy the 2001 WS
Tony LaRussa

Signed,
Giants' fan

[nolemmings]

Thanks Dave. Not that it matters much, but Gibson had been tossed from the game more than 6 innings before McCutchen was hbp. It is surely possible he still pulled the strings from the clubhouse two hours later and he would man up and take responsibility either way, but I doubt he gave Delgado any direct orders. I would bet that more than one guy in that dugout wanted some retribution– maybe Aaron Hill, who last year during Pittsburgh’s only trip to AZ also had his hand broken by a Pirate reliever and missed three months of the season. As you noted (and did I), Pirates pitchers are almost in a league of their own when it comes to hitting opponents.

Also FWIW, I heard on one of the non-local broadcasts or maybe read it on a national sports website that the action taken against McCutchen was consistent with the philosophy that Tony LaRussa maintains about protecting his players. I don’t know if I believe it simply because I never gave it much thought, but if you google “Larussa bean ball” I think you’ll find some interesting quotes and accusations over the years. So for those who consistently praise Saint Anthony– now in charge of Diamondback baseball operations–as a baseball savant, and who bash Gibby as a rogue brute, you may find that their approaches on this issue are one and the same.

[nolemmings]

Buck Showalter
Fraudulent fan base
MLB (i.e. Bud Selig) co-signing a loan to let them buy the 2001 WS
Tony LaRussa

Signed,
Giants' fan

Your remarks are indicative of your allegiance and your level of intelligence is duly noted.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Thanks Dave. Not that it matters much, but Gibson had been tossed from the game more than 6 innings before McCutchen was hbp. It is surely possible he still pulled the strings from the clubhouse two hours later and he would man up and take responsibility either way, but I doubt he gave Delgado any direct orders. I would bet that more than one guy in that dugout wanted some retribution– maybe Aaron Hill, who last year during Pittsburgh’s only trip to AZ also had his hand broken by a Pirate reliever and missed three months of the season. As you noted (and did I), Pirates pitchers are almost in a league of their own when it comes to hitting opponents.

Also FWIW, I heard on one of the non-local broadcasts or maybe read it on a national sports website that the action taken against McCutchen was consistent with the philosophy that Tony LaRussa maintains about protecting his players. I don’t know if I believe it simply because I never gave it much thought, but if you google “Larussa bean ball” I think you’ll find some interesting quotes and accusations over the years. So for those who consistently praise Saint Anthony– now in charge of Diamondback baseball operations–as a baseball savant, and who bash Gibby as a rogue brute, you may find that their approaches on this issue are one and the same.

It's kind of funny. There was a huge hit-piece on Grantland.com about this. The author of the piece destroyed Kirk Gibson and Kevin Towers, while Tony Larussa's name was not brought up a single time.