Baseball Mount Rushmore

[chaddurbin]

i'm perfectly fine with the 1st hof class representing mt rushmore+1...ruth, cobb, wajo, matty, wagner. i'm biased toward the deadball era, but names like mays or aaron doesn't resonate the same as cobb or wagner when you think of the baseball game and its history.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i'm perfectly fine with the 1st hof class representing mt rushmore+1...ruth, cobb, wajo, matty, wagner. i'm biased toward the deadball era, but names like mays or aaron doesn't resonate the same as cobb or wagner when you think of the baseball game and its history.

You rarely see Hornsby mentioned, yet he arguably had the greatest 5 year string of seasons of any player.

From 1921 through 1925, his season cumulative average almost .403 (including the modern record .424 season, and batting over .400 three times during that 5 year span), hitting almost 150 homers (average = 30 per year), 600 RBIs (average = 125 per years), and slugging about .700!

[William Farrell]

Double posted, sorry. PC glitch.

[Scott Garner]

I think that all of you that chose Babe Ruth, Cobb, Williams and Mays got it right, FWIW, but....

Being a pitcher oriented collector I have to agree with perezfan Mark on selecting an all-pitcher Mt. Rushmore:

All Pitchers Mt. Rushmore...

Johnson
Mathewson
Young
Koufax

Impossible to pick that #4 spot.... could easily be talked into Ryan, Spahn, Grove, Alexander, Feller, Paige, Walsh, Gibson and others.

BTW, any pitcher Mt. Rushmore that didn't include Walter Johnson would be a joke, IMHO. I could easily substitute Grove or Alexander in position # 4. I might also place Greg Maddox in the list of alternate # 4's. Not early vintage, but his pitching career was certainly one for the ages...

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

names like mays or aaron doesn't resonate the same as cobb or wagner when you think of the baseball game and its history.

To me, it's the exact opposite.

Mays
B. Bonds
Williams
Ruth, grudgingly

[71buc]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

To me, it's the exact opposite.

Mays
B. Bonds
Williams
Ruth, grudgingly

+1 Unless you prefer slow guys who wear funny little mitts, play only day games, don't travel coast to coast and play under Jim Crow rules. Can you imagine what Mays and Aaron would have done to that level of competition? Give me Rickey Henderson over Ty Cobb and his ilk any day of the week. Baseball collecting is the only universe where people seem to believe that human performance was better 100 years ago.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by 71buc

+1 Unless you prefer slow guys who wear funny little mitts, play only day games, don't travel coast to coast and play under Jim Crow rules. Can you imagine what Mays and Aaron would have done to that level of competition? Give me Rickey Henderson over Ty Cobb and his ilk any day of the week. Baseball collecting is the only universe where people seem to believe that human performance was better 100 years ago.

Athleticism, training techniques, pharmaceutical enhancement, sports medicine, and the modern style of athletic intensity far exceed that of athletes of Ruth's era and before.

There's pictures of Ruth being "treated" for sore joints and soft tissue with a Raytheon diathermy machine, which in essence, is a light bulb behind a drumskin type membrane in in what looks like a reflector dish for a portable light!

Nutritional support was basically non-existant and without THC, coke, and other recreational drugs that became commonplace in the 40s and up, many players from that era nearly drank themselves to death (some did).

Relief pitchers were not as specialized and starters usually went the distance, in many cases after giving up 10 runs, their bench and manager looking the other way, "you're doing great", instead of yanking them out by the throat, bolstering late inning batting averages with spent arms.

Of course, pitchers had the latitude to throw at the batter's heads without fear of umpire repercussion so that was always an unnerving situation at the plate, but this was because players were expendible, most earning a few thousand a year, if that, and no long term contracts.

Ruth's exercise regime consisted of a belt vibrator machine, which does absolutely nothing except exacerbate spine problems if you have one, calisthenics (arms out to the side, arms straight out to the front, repeat, which does nothing), chopping wood, playing golf, and little else.

Ballistic training, that is, training that specifically targets speed, power, and performance using sport related motions, was unknown, in fact the only two ballplayers I can think of that used resistance training from that era was Jimmie Foxx and Hack Wilson, whose "resistance training" was not sport specific, as well as indirectly performed. Both came from backgrounds of heavy labor, a lot of lifting of heavy objects, Wilson toiling in a boiler factory and I believe Foxx, something very similar.

Add anabolics, specific computer generated eye/hand coordination exercise, sports medicine advancements, and examples from above, and it's no doubt why athletes in any sport would be hard pressed to hang with today's athletic "machines".

Of course, every athlete must be compared to others of his era because the technological advances in training and performance are constantly upgraded.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by William Farrell

Athleticism, training techniques, pharmaceutical enhancement, sports medicine, and the modern style of athletic intensity far exceed that of athletes of Ruth's era and before.

There's pictures of Ruth being "treated" for sore joints and soft tissue with a Raytheon diathermy machine, which in essence, is a light bulb behind a drumskin type membrane in in what looks like a reflector dish for a portable light!

Nutritional support was basically non-existant and without THC, coke, and other recreational drugs that became commonplace in the 40s and up, many players from that era nearly drank themselves to death (some did).

Relief pitchers were not as specialized and starters usually went the distance, in many cases after giving up 10 runs, their bench and manager looking the other way, "you're doing great", instead of yanking them out by the throat, bolstering late inning batting averages with spent arms.

Of course, pitchers had the latitude to throw at the batter's heads without fear of umpire repercussion so that was always an unnerving situation at the plate, but this was because players were expendible, most earning a few thousand a year, if that, and no long term contracts.

Ruth's exercise regime consisted of a belt vibrator machine, which does absolutely nothing except exacerbate spine problems if you have one, calisthenics (arms out to the side, arms straight out to the front, repeat, which does nothing), chopping wood, playing golf, and little else.

Ballistic training, that is, training that specifically targets speed, power, and performance using sport related motions, was unknown, in fact the only two ballplayers I can think of that used resistance training from that era was Jimmie Foxx and Hack Wilson, whose "resistance training" was not sport specific, as well as indirectly performed. Both came from backgrounds of heavy labor, a lot of lifting of heavy objects, Wilson toiling in a boiler factory and I believe Foxx, something very similar.

Add anabolics, specific computer generated eye/hand coordination exercise, sports medicine advancements, and examples from above, and it's no doubt why athletes in any sport would be hard pressed to hang with today's athletic "machines".

Of course, every athlete must be compared to others of his era because the technological advances in training and performance are constantly upgraded.

William,
Don't forget the ubiquitous use of the medicine ball for Ruth and many others as part of their athletic training.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by Scott Garner

William,
Don't forget the ubiquitous use of the medicine ball for Ruth and many others as part of their athletic training.

I forgot the medicine ball! Thank you. An honorable mention of blowing off the suds atop his beer as aerobic exercise.

There was the steam cabinet too, for weight loss, which would amount to zero once the "victim" of intentional heat exhaustion and electrolyte imbalance would drink water.

[chaddurbin]

you can't compare players across era. you can only compare them to their peers at the time. that's why there are era and park adjusted stats etc. i'd take a teamful of ruths and walter johnsons over aarons and mays.

i love barry bonds and his freak stats...but until mlb accepts the ped era for what it is he won't even be in the hof, much less any mt rushmore representing the game.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by 71buc

+1 Unless you prefer slow guys who wear funny little mitts, play only day games, don't travel coast to coast and play under Jim Crow rules. Can you imagine what Mays and Aaron would have done to that level of competition? Give me Rickey Henderson over Ty Cobb and his ilk any day of the week. Baseball collecting is the only universe where people seem to believe that human performance was better 100 years ago.

Wow! You, me and William are gonna all be banned!!

To be honest (don't stone me), I really don't understand the connection people have with Cobb, Wagner, Ruth, etc. I know no one here ever saw Cobb or Wagner play; I doubt anyone ever saw Ruth. I, on the other hand, saw Mays, McCovey, Marichal, etc. and that is why I love baseball, love the Giants, love collecting. That said, I do "get" the romantic allure of days gone by.....way, way by

I'd love to see Ruth try to get his 48(?) oz. bat around on an Aroldis Chapman heater or a pitch from the new Yankee I saw the other night....Betances? 6'9" and throws 100+ mph.

[William Farrell]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I'd love to see Ruth try to get his 48(?) oz. bat around on an Aroldis Chapman heater or a pitch from the new Yankee I saw the other night....Betances? 6'9" and throws 100+ mph.

Don't forget the Babe's favorite dugout snack, a jar full of pickled eels washed down with a fifth of Old Overholt Rye.