Heubach baseball figures

[perezfan]

Sorry to dominate this thread, but it's rare to have a topic of vintage figural baseball pieces (one of my true passions in this hobby...)

Check these out.... Ultra-rare Fielder and Base Runner accompany the far more common Batter and Pitcher. Lots of collectors don't even know that these two exist. The Batter and Pitcher pictured measure 16" in height (so there is a 5th size as well).

[Econteachert205]

Was the fielder and runner produced for all sizes, if not which size or sizes. I checked the auction records, they were going for crazy money in 01-02. I got mine for about 325 each.

[ooo-ribay]

What country were these produced in....and when?

And, as they say on Antiques Roadshow, "I suppose you'd like to know what they're worth." Yes, I would.

[Econteachert205]

They are german... Value I would estimate for my pair about 1k.

[lefty147]

I believe the are from the 1890's.

[perezfan]

Here's a 12" Pitcher Statue that went for $2,400...

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...ntoryid=108986


And then another of the same statue, just slightly lesser condition, sold for only $448...

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...ntoryid=116542


Here's the larger pair that sold for $2,133...

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...ntoryid=110630


And another large pair that sold for $2,400...

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=88922


And lastly, a large pair that went for close to $13 Grand!

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...ventoryid=5235

So pricing is all over the board. Condition influences it a lot (as is the case with most memorabilia) and roughly 95% of surviving Batter Statues have a wood replacement Bat.

[ooo-ribay]

Mark - how do you find these past results? ^^^^^ Straight to Google or to the individual auction houses or is there a 3rd party "auction results" site? (maybe like the one we were alerted to yesterday)

[Econteachert205]

I found the same auction results doing a google search. As far as unmarked figurines, now we're into the realm of china/porcelain experts. The best parallel I can think of is Sevres. The stuff was so popular that nearby companies would make stuff very similar and of the same quality but leave off marks. I don't know that Heubach was that popular though, so if that isn't the case it could be factory seconds they didn't want to mark. The Germans tended to be pretty consistent about marking things but it was the 1880's-1890's so...

[1880nonsports]

what are your thoughts on the unmarked Heubachs? I have a few pairs in different sizes of the base ball and tennis statues as well as a single or two. Most are marked but a couple aren't. They appear to be of the same style and with the same level of craftsmanship with regard to the painting applied. I've always wondered about whether the unmarked ones are reproductions (or second generation).
The real markings inside would be a bit difficult to reproduce (more expensive might be more appropriate) so the painting, materials, and dimensions are a logical place to start. Heubach wasn't the only company making figurines in Germany (and perhaps elsewhere) but I assume there were some sort of laws regarding the right to protect the ownership of the casting. Re-casting of bisques is possible and one way of determining if that's occured is a tell-tale difference in the dimensions. That would require having the original specs or the entire line for comparrison.
I have made a casual study of the ones I have marked and unmarked and they appear to be of the same manufacture - but I'm no expert and always uneasy when things that are generally marked aren't. I collect a few Royal Daulton tobacco jars and whatever - some of them are umarked as well and sometimes they worry me as well.
On a side note - I have a batter that I believe retains the ORIGINAL wooden bat. Not sure if there's any way to know for sure?
Hope Mark and/or someone else might be inclined to offer some thoughts? I'll try and post a pic or two............

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

what are your thoughts on the unmarked Heubachs? I have a few pairs in different sizes of the base ball and tennis statues as well as a single or two. Most are marked but a couple aren't. They appear to be of the same style and with the same level of craftsmanship with regard to the painting applied. I've always wondered about whether the unmarked ones are reproductions (or second generation).
The real markings inside would be a bit difficult to reproduce (more expensive might be more appropriate) so the painting, materials, and dimensions are a logical place to start. Heubach wasn't the only company making figurines in Germany (and perhaps elsewhere) but I assume there were some sort of laws regarding the right to protect the ownership of the casting. Re-casting of bisques is possible and one way of determining if that's occured is a tell-tale difference in the dimensions. That would require having the original specs or the entire line for comparrison.
I have made a casual study of the ones I have marked and unmarked and they appear to be of the same manufacture - but I'm no expert and always uneasy when things that are generally marked aren't. I collect a few Royal Daulton tobacco jars and whatever - some of them are umarked as well and sometimes they worry me as well.
On a side note - I have a batter that I believe retains the ORIGINAL wooden bat. Not sure if there's any way to know for sure?
Hope Mark and/or someone else might be inclined to offer some thoughts? I'll try and post a pic or two............

Sorry I never answered all of those great questions and observations...

I got caught up in the Legendary Archives, and then had to run right after my ridiculously long post showing the results. I was pressed for time, and only searched Legendary's archives... no others.

Yup... Hunts, Lelands, REA, etc. would have shown similar results, whith prices topping out shortly after the year 2000... very true!

I'm pretty sure you know a bunch more about these than I do. I did see some crazy prices realized on the Tennis figures. Would love to see a few of yours, if you wouldn't mind posting here!

As for the generic (unmarked) ones.... I simply don't know the circumstances back in Germany in the 1890s. Could have been that certain retail outlets wanted to offer lower cost alternatives to the name brand. It almost seems ridiculous to apply today's terminology and marketing principles to the 19th Century... so won't even try to render a guess. But would love to see a few of yours side-by-side (Heubach vs. Generic).

Lastly, I was afraid that someone would ask the "Original Bat" question. Can you post a pic of the one you have that you believe is original? Would really love to see that...

The Auction Houses often claim to know whether the Bat is a replacement or original. But I'm not convinced anyone really knows for sure. It's a great question for the likes of David Hunt, Doug Allen, Rob Lifson, Josh Leland, Mike Hefner, Dan Imler or even Keith Schneider. I know at least half of those guys have been known to post here. But all are likely tied up with the National. So maybe we can get a definitive answer after the weekend

[1880nonsports]

thanks for your willingness to share some thoughts. I'll try and get a few pix in the next day or two. They're mostly on shelves in "hard to get to" mode.

[perezfan]

I completely get it

I actually cringe when people ask me for pics of something that's securely tucked away. Then after finding it, you have to upload the entire memory card just to access a couple of photos. It's a pain... so no hurry on the pics (although would be very cool to see!)

Thanks!