Problems with two championship rings in upcoming Heritage Auction

[bobfreedman]

While I understand that Michael did a great job on the rings, I do not understand why you feel that Heritage needs to jump and do things in a manner and pace that you feel is proper? Chris Ivy sent you a reply and told you that they were investigating the manner and for me, that is good enough. Why do they need to do things by your schedule? They have an obligation to the consigner to figure things out and, that does not happen in a day or a week sometimes. They do, believe it or not have other things to do other than this one task. As Chris said, the consigner was not immediately available. What would have happened if they pulled the rings, talked to the consigner and figured out one of the two rings were good? Were they then supposed to put it back up for auction? It's up for auction, it's down, it's back up etc....

You did your job and told Chris but, that was not good enough for you, you were not happy that they were doing things at their pace and not your perceived time frame therefore, you felt the need to "call" them out. Heritage IMO did nothing wrong and did a great job in the end. Michael , I don't know you and I do not want to start something here with you but, I just think that people need to be patient and not so quick to jump to the worst conclusion. You were in communications with Chris and he told you that he was on it. Why was that not good enough for you?

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

While I understand that Michael did a great job on the rings, I do not understand why you feel that Heritage needs to jump and do things in a manner and pace that you feel is proper? Chris Ivy sent you a reply and told you that they were investigating the manner and for me, that is good enough. Why do they need to do things by your schedule? They have an obligation to the consigner to figure things out and, that does not happen in a day or a week sometimes. They do, believe it or not have other things to do other than this one task. As Chris said, the consigner was not immediately available. What would have happened if they pulled the rings, talked to the consigner and figured out one of the two rings were good? Were they then supposed to put it back up for auction? It's up for auction, it's down, it's back up etc....

You did your job and told Chris but, that was not good enough for you, you were not happy that they were doing things at their pace and not your perceived time frame therefore, you felt the need to "call" them out. Heritage IMO did nothing wrong and did a great job in the end. Michael , I don't know you and I do not want to start something here with you but, I just think that people need to be patient and not so quick to jump to the worst conclusion. You were in communications with Chris and he told you that he was on it. Why was that not good enough for you?

Agree with this, too, even tho I stand by my opinion of Michael as a good watchdog. I think Michael may have been frustrated because it seemed like a no brainer to pull the auction. That said, I understand Heritage's position as well. God, I'm wishy washy!

[Duluth Eskimo]

If it wasn't so blatantly ridiculous I would agree with you guys. The problem is anyone with any sports knowledge can look at the evidence and say, we got a problem here. Why sit on it and let people continue to bid. I understand what you are saying that in the end there was no foul, but come on. Really?

[bobfreedman]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

If it wasn't so blatantly ridiculous I would agree with you guys. The problem is anyone with any sports knowledge can look at the evidence and say, we got a problem here. Why sit on it and let people continue to bid. I understand what you are saying that in the end there was no foul, but come on. Really?

For the same reasons that I listed above;
1. There are two sides to every story
2. They wanted to get in contact with the consigner
3. Why rush to take it down if no harm is done to leave it up?
4. Just because their pace of investigating is not what you would consider fast enough doesn't make them guilty of anything.

If you were the consigner here and they took the items down without so much as an email, how pissed would you be?

[slidekellyslide]

And we would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids....


I feel like most auction houses appreciate the help that Net54 provides in rooting out bad items or misidentified photos, et cetera....I've always gotten the feeling that we are a thorn in the side of Heritage and they'd prefer we stop investigating their auctions. At the very least they stopped sending out the condescending jackwagon they used to have as their Net54 mouthpiece.

[sports-rings]

Thanks everyone for the (mostly) kind words and for the support.

I just want to address what a couple of you brought up - my timing issue and how I should have given them more time.

I agree with one of the posters - the rings were tampered with - this can not be disputed. Chris said he needed to speak with Mr. Edwards to make a final determination on the items and if the descriptions should be modified.

In one of my posts, I asked Chris, what could he possibly hear from Mr. Edwards that could change the fact or Chris's already determined agreement with me that the ring engravings were not original.

This investigation did not rise to the level of Watergate or the IRS scandal. I gave Chris time to deal with this but I felt that the community needed fair time to be warned about these problems.

If you track what super bowl rings typically sell for, these two items could have realistically sold for 20,000 - 50,000 each. My experience in speaking with and dealing with these types of buyers is that they are very busy with work, careers, and other pursuits in life and are not glued to the internet or hobby.

They could easily miss the update (yes I know Chris explained his process for making sure this would not happen, but it's not full proof and no guarantee bidders will see it). And yes I know, the responsability lies with the bidder and he/she should be their research.

[sports-rings]

Originally Posted by bobfreedman

For the same reasons that I listed above;
1. There are two sides to every story
2. They wanted to get in contact with the consigner
3. Why rush to take it down if no harm is done to leave it up?
4. Just because their pace of investigating is not what you would consider fast enough doesn't make them guilty of anything.

If you were the consigner here and they took the items down without so much as an email, how pissed would you be?

4. - I am not saying they are guilty of anything. I stated that Chris and I have different opinions on the timing. These are opinions and I don't think either of us are right or wrong.

If I was the consigner how would I feel? I am glad you asked:

He contacted me prior to putting the items in the auction as I have purchased rings from him in the past.

I sent him pictures of real rings and told him that Donnie Edwards was not a player. The consigner chose to proceed anyway and put the items in the auction.

The consigner is a "buyer" of jewelry and decided to try to unload these rings on an unsuspecting public.

[sports-rings]

If you were the consigner here and they took the items down without so much as an email, how pissed would you be?

One last thing....

Remember, I am saying that Chris and I have a different opinion on to proper timing of this investigation and Chris and his company did their investigation and took down the rings.

How about blaming the consigner?

When I presented evidence to him about Donnie Edwards not being a player, and no such thing as practice squads in the 1970s, and the bad engraving he decided to keep the story in-tact and send the rings off to auction.

I work with Ken Goldin at Goldin Auctions and have given Ken football memorabilia to put in his auction.

The last thing I want to do is embarrass Ken, or have an item returned to Ken.

I don't want to get one over on the auction house or the winning bidder. I want Ken to want my business and consider me a good partner in future auctions.

So I tell Ken, ahead of time about any claims or issues. I then rely on Ken and his experience to either:

1) not accept the item
2) write up a description explaining any issues
3) guide me how to be honest and handle that situation.

I was able to sell in Ken's auction that National Champions ring from the person who claimed to be on the team but wasn't.

Ken and his crew wrote up an honest description and the ring sold.

I believe Heritage will rewrite the description and put the rings in a future auction and that's fine. Everyone except the consigner, who should have at least warned Heritage that there could be issues, will be better off - including the eventual winning bidders of the two rings.

[bobfreedman]

So what it all boiled down to Michael, is that you didn't like the way HA went about their own business and how they decided to do their jobs? They did not do things fast enough for you is what all boils down to.