68T Bill Stoneman variation

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by goheels

Thanks Larry. Do you know if they specifically found a Stoneman in the rack pack?

I have been looking for that card for almost 30 years. I betcha I have looked at 68 card backs in card shops in over 25 states--not sure if i should be proud or embarrassed about that one. Tons of MBs, a decent number of McCormicks, but not one Stoneman.

It may be the variation collector's Loch Ness Monster.

Carlton, I am not aware of the Stoneman variation being found, but it was hopeful with the luck that you had finding a pack with the WL McCormick on top that it would carry over for you on locating the Stoneman.


With the #192 Yaz CL, what is the cause of the 4 variations?

Understandably, there would be two variations of this #192 CL as many CLs from the 1960s were produced/released with both the previous and current series. Do the additional two variations mean that each of these #192 checklists were actually DPs within each series(making them essentially Quadruple Prints-QPs) ?

[goheels]

Top 2 cards are same: clipped B on cap (also sliver of yellow at lower left part of inset circle from cropping), with THE on back

Bottom left: full B on cap, YOUR on back

Bottom right: clipped B, YOUR on back

Therefore there ARE four verified variations, I am missing full B on cap with THE on back.

Looks like lucky Al will have his done if he sends me his address for my duplicate.

Larry I would guess you are correct. We need to see a good picture of this 3rd (and second series) sheet, not the grainy ones I have seen before. Need enough detail to look for the cropping and would also need to see the back of the sheet.

Curious as to why Topps felt the need to change the message on the back slightly. The "GAME" on back version offers a little more clarity than the other version as to how the kid might play the game. Were both 2nd series (the 3rd series would have been a "chase" card in that sheet) and 3rd series sheets printed simultaneously? If Topps made an editorial decision to change the back message, at what point in the production would they have made the change?

When they have caught errors before and changed them, it was typically early on so that the error card is a little more rare (400 McCormick WL comes to mind, etc).

[savedfrommyspokes]

Carlton, I must now debunk my theory of this card being a DP within the 88 card second series print run...here is a second series sheet with 88 unique cards (this sheet should be one of the two unique sheets for this series: 88+88+88=264/132=2), and the Yaz CL card appears only once in the 88 card series. Now it is possible(but not likely) on the second unique sheet for this series that the two Yaz CL cards that appear on it are different than the one appearing on the sheet pictured.

Since this card is not a DP within each series, one can only wonder on why there are four variations of this card?

[steve B]

There really should be a second sheet. That's how the Topps sheets were on the press, two 132 card sheets side by side.

So there are probably 6 versions of the card, three with "the" and three with "your".

Steve B

[goheels]

This much we know:

The 2nd series had no DPs; 1st HALF sheet you show has rows 1-8, and then rows 1-4; 2nd HALF sheet would have rows 5-8 and 1-8.

We don't know what is on the back of the half sheet shown.

The front cropping differences occur when the Yaz card is placed with different cards in a different row, on a different series. You would expect that the 2 Yaz cards in the second HALF sheet 2nd series on rows 2 and 10 would have the same inset appearance. Without a close up of the sheet you don't know which one it is.

The game cards were inserted in the 3rd series. The messages on the Yaz CLs were different, why is that? We need to see the backs of sheets of the 2nd and 3rd series. The message changed not from a misspelling, it just seems to explain the game a little better. Once the "improved" version came out, they wouldn't likely produce the older message. The problem is that most likely the 2nd series run would have been completed before the 3rd one began. I don't understand then how there could be a change in the back message in both series unless their printing schedules overlapped. We need a printing/production expert to help us here as well as finding more uncut sheets.

[goheels]

Didn't see your post Steve. What do you think the six different cards look like?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by goheels

Didn't see your post Steve. What do you think the six different cards look like?

I think it's likely the language change was done between series two and three.

So series 2 would have "the scores" while series 3 would have "your scores"(Just a guess, it could be the other way around.

The cropping difference is probably on both series.

That leaves the third version for each as the mystery prize

I believe there is probably some small difference, maybe a very small one between two positions of whichever is more common - full B or partial B.
If it's a very tiny cropping difference, it may not show since the registration of the black can change how the cropping appears.
If you look at Als cards you can see that in the three full B cards. The triangle of sky at the upper left changes size, and the amount of the B that's visible also changes. That's probably the registration rather than the cropping.

I think each card in any of the 88 card series will have three versions. (Technically this is already a fact) But most will be nearly undetectable.

For 68 the key may be the burlap like border. If it was done by putting the card images onto a full background there may be an identifiable difference in the grain.

Steve B

[JollyElm]

Here are my four variations. I have found that the best way to determine the clipped 'B' versions is to look to the lower right portion of the circle (I highlighted it on the card in the bottom row) to find the 'colorless arc,' as I call it.

It's also worth noting that in the regular version of both the 'playing card' and 'playing card game' variations, there is often a tiny, hairline occurrence of this 'colorless arc.' Here, it is seen in the bottom left 'playing card game' card. (In Al's post #10, you can see it in his 'playing card' version at top left.)

yaz1.jpgyaz2.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by goheels

Without a close up of the sheet you don't know which one it is.

I found this "reprint" 44 card sheet from the second series on ebay and it shows a closeup of the Yaz CL with the "B" cropped. If this Topps half series reprint sheet is correct and is an accurate portrayal of the original sheet, we would likely know where the "cropped B" comes from, the second series printing. Unfortunately, the backs are not printed for this reprint sheet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Topps-R...-/370891185087

[steve B]

Originally Posted by savedfrommyspokes

I found this "reprint" 44 card sheet from the second series on ebay and it shows a closeup of the Yaz CL with the "B" cropped. If this Topps half series reprint sheet is correct and is an accurate portrayal of the original sheet, we would likely know where the "cropped B" comes from, the second series printing. Unfortunately, the backs are not printed for this reprint sheet.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1995-Topps-R...-/370891185087

That's also a reprint of a proof sheet so it might have very little in common with a production sheet.

Steve B