OT: Who should be in the Hall that isn't

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by byrone

I'd go with Joe Wood, Lefty O'Doul and Thurman Munson

Smoky Joe is a tough case. He was a legit HOF'er as a pitcher until he got hurt - a career 147 ERA+ guy. But...too many partial seasons and only two 20-win seasons in an era when every top guy won 20 every year. As a hitter, he was good but not great - and really only played two years. Just not enough on the resume to be a HOFer but there's no doubt he was a legitimately great player.

Lefty O'Doul - I don't care that his career was short. I don't care that he played in the offense-inflated 1930s. You hit .349 for your career with two batting titles AND some power? You're in.

Thurman Munson - Munson, to me, is in the Hall of Very Good. I think he needed a couple more good or great years to be a HOFer. And, even without the plane crash, he wasn't going to have those.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Lefty O'Doul - I don't care that his career was short. I don't care that he played in the offense-inflated 1930s. You hit .349 for your career with two batting titles AND some power? You're in.

Plus he's a huge reason there's baseball in Japan still, and by association, probably why there's baseball in Korea and other parts of Asia. Had a long storied career as player and manager in the PCL too.

Separately, someone referred to Chuck Klein's home/away splits. O'Doul's home stats in Philly were better, but he still raked on the road.

IMO, he should definitely be in.

Re- Ripken and snopes, the story has evolved over the years. An older version was that Costner was at a celebrity golf tournament during the day with Ripken and his wife. Ripken left for the ballpark, but forgot he needed something at home so went there only to find Costner with his wife. The rest of the snopes story holds to the version I'd heard. 10-15 years ago this was being told as gospel in minor league (and apparently some major league) clubhouses. I heard it from a guy who I think made it double A in the Orioles organization and he told it with certainty. Several other buddies of mine heard different versions separately from friends in both the minors and majors around the same time. Snopes doesn't agree, but it was really fun to hear it.. And to believe it back then.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There are some funny anecdotes about O'Doul in Gay Talese's great mid 60s profile of DiMaggio, "Silent Season of a Hero." Apparently he was one of the few people in DiMaggio's inner circle at that time. In one of them they go to a charitable event which they were expecting to be a big deal, it turns out to be some old ladies singing in a remote church, DiMaggio is being gracious and chatting with the ladies and O'Doul is muttering under his breath "how the *&^% did you get us into this?"

[howard38]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Plus he's a huge reason there's baseball in Japan still, and by association, probably why there's baseball in Korea and other parts of Asia. Had a long storied career as player and manager in the PCL too.

Separately, someone referred to Chuck Klein's home/away splits. O'Doul's home stats in Philly were better, but he still raked on the road.

IMO, he should definitely be in.

Re- Ripken and snopes, the story has evolved over the years. An older version was that Costner was at a celebrity golf tournament during the day with Ripken and his wife. Ripken left for the ballpark, but forgot he needed something at home so went there only to find Costner with his wife. The rest of the snopes story holds to the version I'd heard. 10-15 years ago this was being told as gospel in minor league (and apparently some major league) clubhouses. I heard it from a guy who I think made it double A in the Orioles organization and he told it with certainty. Several other buddies of mine heard different versions separately from friends in both the minors and majors around the same time. Snopes doesn't agree, but it was really fun to hear it.. And to believe it back then.

O'Doul only played two years for the Phillies. His BA for the rest of his career was .332 so he surely could rake.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by howard38

O'Doul only played two years for the Phillies. His BA for the rest of his career was .332 so he surely could rake.

My point exactly. Was just pre-empting any possible Baker Bowl arguments.

Let's get him in!!!!

[Fred]

I think the HOF should have a "pioneers" section which honors/recognizes players in the 19th century. There are players from that era represented, but there could/should probably be a few more:

Stovey, Caruthers, Mathews, Mullane and a few others.

From the early 20th century there are some more deserving than some that are now enshrined.

[Klrdds]

I agree with you and with the players mentioned here and the viewpoints expressed for these players pros and cons. Since the reorganization of the Old Timers/Veterans committee I have believed and lobbied for 5 categories rather than the present 3. This would allow for a 5 year rotation rather than the present 3 year rotation between categories and therefore candidates would not be recycled regularly , and the same names would not be showing up all the time and we would not see voter lethargy due to the same names being nominated every 3 years. Also let the categories include players, umpires, executives, owners, and negro leaguers.
It seems we all agree that there are 10-20 19th -early 20th century players deserving election, and probably the same number of serious negro league players. The 5 year rotation would allow for possibly a greater review of these players accomplishments as well as allowing for a few fresh faces to show up on the Veterans Committee and therefore have a different look at some of these deserving players with new insights into their careers and an appreciation of their contributions to baseball and avoiding voter boredom amid repetition.
I really think a Net54 veterans committee could do as well as or better than the present Veterans Committee.
My categories would be :
1. Pioneers 1869-1900
2. Dead Ball Era 1901-1920
3. Rise to Prominence 1921-1950
4. Glory Days 1950-1970
5. Expansion Era 1971- Present
I know this doesn't mention specific players, the members have all stated their cases for players well. I too have my long list of players, execs, umps, owners and negro leaguers that I feel deserve election also. This is a viewpoint to address the broader topic of getting players elected that deserve to be.

[alaskapaul3]

Players

Trammell and Whitaker shoul've been in a long time ago.

Bob Johnson should be in as well.

Non Players :

This will open up a can of worms , but here goes !!!

Marvin Miller, George Steinbrenner and Dr. Frank Jobe have all dramatically changed the face of the game. They should be in.