Thoughts on the National...

thecatspajamas · #1 06-26-2014, 10:41 PM

Not speaking from my own experience, but one guy that I know who sets up at the National every year does so more for making contacts and getting leads than for trying to realize sales. He deals primarily in game-used items, and will take some pretty high-end stuff for show, but doesn't necessarily expect to actually sell much at the show. I would think your paintings would be the same way, in that you might not sell many (or any) large pieces at the show, but through lots of hand-shaking and pressing the flesh, would expect to come away with some commissions or at least having made contacts that would yield commissions down the road. As far as the larger pieces go, I really don't think you or Dean should be expecting spur-of-the-moment purchases, as to me, that sort of purchase requires a bit more planning and forethought, not just because of the $ involved, but also because the personal connection with the subject and involvement in its selection seems to be a much more integral part of the process.

On the other hand, if you're looking for something to specifically fund the trip and make it immediately pay for itself, I would think that smaller pieces or something like the forthcoming book (*ahem* any updates there?) would be ideal for bringing to the National as those would fall closer to the spur-of-the-moment purchase category. They would also be much easier for buyers to transport back home than the larger pieces.

That's my 2 cents anyway. (And glancing back at the thread, I see that I'd better go ahead and post this before EVERYTHING gets ~~restated~~ pre-stated in more eloquent fashion

)

OT question: What is that little standee/statue thing on the table in the shot from 5 years ago? It looks a lot like the things George Burke used to make for players occasionally (I know, I know, it's the one thing in the photo that is NOT an awesome Kreindler painting, and I'm sure many fists are shaking with utterances of "If he mentions George Burke one more time...")

parker1b2 · #2 06-26-2014, 10:52 PM

I agree with most of what everyone is saying. I think getting people to see your paintings in person would generate sales down the road.

Last year me and a few buddies went to a wine festival where they had various wineries and vendors set up. This one guy had very high end wine themed furniture, wine racks etc. It was a 3 day festival and we were there late day two. We were talking to the guy and he said he didn't make any sales, but a lot of interest and contacts. We took his, card and a few months later my friend made a large purchase from the guy for his backyard. My friend probably would never have sought out that type of furniture, and was not going to make a purchase like that at the festival, but by seeing it in person, he decided to buy it later on.

Bicem · #3 06-26-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parker1b2

I think getting people to see your paintings in person would generate sales down the road.

This. The marketing and creating awareness of your work to the perfect target audience I would think would be worth the price of the trip (even if you were to not actually sell a single piece at the show).

I for one fell in love with your work only after seeing David's Smokey Joe in person at one of the Nationals.

Kawika · #4 06-26-2014, 11:41 PM

Graig: Five years ago you were just bursting on the scene. Your amazingness hadn't sunk in yet. At the best of times it's a lot to expect the average show attendee to buy a 5 or 10 $K painting on impulse so it's no wonder you didn't have great sales. But the exposure to your works and the opportunity for folks to meet the artist has got to be a positive even if you don't sell many paintings. Anybody who hasn't seen your works in person is missing the better part of the experience - I just look up from my keyboard and Smokey Joe Wood is looking back at me and I am blown away every time. And you can remind Dean that the Cobb Sliding piece did sell as a result of the Cleveland National. I wasn't there but when I saw it on a post about the show I jumped on it. As for the small studies, I understand that you don't want to be a starving artist, and Dean doesn't want to be a starving agent, but to me it just cheapens things a little bit. Keep on painting masterpieces and leave the tchotchkes to Dick Perez.

Leon · #5 06-27-2014, 12:14 AM

That is a great painting!!

billyb · #6 06-27-2014, 01:07 AM

Graig,

Definitely show your paintings at the National. I would also take a look at whose signing at the National. Maybe select a couple of the top stars, get the okay from the National Organizers and ask of you could display, your painting, of the star when he is signing. The cost of the 200 smaller paintings would probably be the same as a couple larger pieces you could display.
And you have enough credibility to approach MLB about paintings done by you for the MVPs of each league. I think you are that good.
Aim high my friend, you have the talent. The smaller pictures, I would avoid selling too many of those (the 200 mentioned).

hcv123 · #7 06-27-2014, 07:58 AM

Hi Graig,

I echo much of what has been shared already, but am weighing in as someone who has never seen your work in person, is a hard core collector and not so into paintings.
1) I agree you need to decide what market you are in - high end or low end (or wherever in between) - to have the 5x7's that you use to make the "good stuff" sold as a "consequence" of making a larger fine art painting is different than painting the smaller ones trying to make sales. I agree with the comment that such a move could "cheapen" the perception of your work in the marketplace.
2) I think the number of "lead generation" and exposure comments are spot on as well. Especially looking at the product that you offer, looking to "justify" the expense of showing by "breaking even" in show sales is VERY short sighted. There would be no marketing and advertising industry if companies expected an immediate roi equal to their investment in such things. I think it would be smarter to try to demographically identify who your customers are/have been and determine if the national is a good venue to get exposure to more people that fit that demographic. If not, where are they? How do you get in front of them?
3) I think a collector like me is part of the reason you saw so few sales at the national you showed at - I have spent thousands on cards and memorabilia. I even own a couple of memorabilia connected paintings, but appreciate fine art more from a museum perspective ( I like visiting and looking at it) than owning it. While I am sure I would be wowed given all I have read about your work, it is highly unlikely that I would buy a painting. A part of that is consideration of future appreciation or resale (When I buy cards or memorabilia I know I will be able to resell one day (gain loss, etc.). If I wanted to/needed to- how quickly would I be able to resell a painting - at what level of appreciation or depreciation? It would be a MUCH smaller market and arguably greater risk of depreciation in the short term. Not to get morbid here, but haven't most of the great fine artists work appreciated after they have left this world?
4) You clearly are an AMAZING fine artist. I applaud your courage in opening a dialogue exploring ways to make a good business/living out of it. It is a very different question than the quality of the work you do.
Be well and good luck. If you end up showing I will be sure to bring my 7 year old (his first national) by so we can take in your work in person.

-Howard

timzcardz · #8 06-27-2014, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I first met Graig at the National in Cleveland and although I did not purchase anything at the show I am proud to currently own three paintings and a few studies. Having seen his work in person made it easy for me to make future purchases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

And you can remind Dean that the Cobb Sliding piece did sell as a result of the Cleveland National. I wasn't there but when I saw it on a post about the show I jumped on it.

I don't know what more could be said. It's all about targeted exposure. The direct/indirect benefit from that exposure is difficult to quantify.

A was mentioned elsewhere here, the coffee table type book that you have mentioned previously would be an ideal quick sale at The National. Autographed and personalized to collectors would be provide incredible targeted exposure. How many fellow collectors would the books sold be seen by? How many commissions would it lead to?

There are sales, and then there's marketing. For you, I would think that The National would be more about marketing . . . and marketing is about future sales.

perezfan · #9 06-27-2014, 11:30 AM

I work for a major food company who participates in dozens of trade shows every year. We rarely (if ever) sell enough product at these shows to recoup the booth fees and sample product given away.

It's all about the PR and building brand awareness. It is a long-term investment. If you look at the immediate term, and only "turning a profit", you are missing the boat. Same seems true for your situation. The Coffee Table Book signing idea is a great one. Something classy that people could easily afford... and would undoubtedly lead to future sales. I much prefer this option to selling the small studies (and potentially cheapening the "Kreindler brand").

That said... I am intrigued by the Agent/Artist relationship dynamic. Who makes the final call in the end... you or Dean? I'm pretty sure most of us are hoping it's you

Scott Garner · #10 06-27-2014, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perezfan

i work for a major food company who participates in dozens of trade shows every year. We rarely (if ever) sell enough product at these shows to recoup the booth fees and sample product given away.

It's all about the pr and building brand awareness. It is a long-term investment. If you look at the immediate term, and only "turning a profit", you are missing the boat. Same seems true for your situation. The coffee table book signing idea is a great one. Something classy that people could easily afford... And would undoubtedly lead to future sales. I much prefer this option to selling the small studies (and potentially cheapening the "kreindler brand").

That said... I am intrigued by the agent/artist relationship dynamic. Who makes the final call in the end... You or dean? I'm pretty sure most of us are hoping it's you

+100

shelly · #11 06-27-2014, 01:32 PM

If you paint it they will come and see it.

Runscott · #12 06-27-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

As for the small studies, I understand that you don't want to be a starving artist, and Dean doesn't want to be a starving agent, but to me it just cheapens things a little bit. Keep on painting masterpieces and leave the tchotchkes to Dick Perez.

David, your comparison to Perez' work is completely invalid - Graig's small studies are much better quality than anything Dick Perez does, and there is nothing cheap about them.

Runscott · #13 06-27-2014, 11:55 AM

Graig, I think 200 is way too many - that changes them from 'studies' to something else. I would go all-out as you did in the National 5 years ago, bringing some of the larger paintings, but also bring maybe 20-50 of the smaller studies to gauge interest in that sort of thing.

Kawika · #14 06-27-2014, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

David, your comparison to Perez' work is completely invalid - Graig's small studies are much better quality than anything Dick Perez does, and there is nothing cheap about them.

Agreed with you on the quality of Graig's works. Matter of semantics. My yiddische mama (no joke here, I really had one) referred to little incidental things as tchotchkes, no value or judgement necessarily implied. (The real crap was chazzerai, fit only for pigs).

Runscott · #15 06-27-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Agreed with you on the quality of Graig's works. Matter of semantics. My yiddische mama (no joke here, I really had one) referred to little incidental things as tchotchkes, no value or judgement necessarily implied. (The real crap was chazzerai, fit only for pigs).

I see what you mean. Perez did actually cheapen his work. The stuff he did early on;e.g-for the 'Great Moments' series, was in some cases very good, but the stuff you see in auctions now doesn't generally even resemble the players he is trying to depict. I'm sure he could do better work if he would slow down.

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