OT: Who should be in the Hall that isn't

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by marvymelvin

Roger Maris. Can I bring his name up again? It seemed like 20 years ago everyone was arguing over whether Maris should get into the hall or not. Then it all died down after his final eligibility year. I know that I am a homer for the Yankees, but seriously, Maris deserves another look, especially when we are looking to clean up the game and recognize guys for determination, clean living, and sportsmanship. All of which I believe Maris was a great example.

Brad, I'm sorry. I just couldn't put Roger Maris in if I had a vote, as much as I liked the man, and as much as I admire what he accomplished in breaking Babe Ruth's single season home run record. I've never read a persuasive argument in favor of putting him into Cooperstown, and while he may have set a great example with how he lived his life, that in no way strengthens the argument for inducting him into the Hall of Fame. All that counts is what he did when he was wearing his uniform.

Originally Posted by marvymelvin

And he had respectable numbers.

He did have respectable numbers. But this is the Hall of Fame we're talking about, which should recognize only the greatest men to have ever played the game.

Roger Maris had two elite seasons, 1960 and 1961 when he won the AL MVP both years. He hit 100 home runs, and drove in 253 runs in those two seasons combined. Beyond those two MVP seasons, he was an All Star two other times, and he received MVP votes just one other time, in 1964 when he finished 25th in the vote. Maris was also a very good outfielder, underrated perhaps. He did win a Gold Glove in 1960.

But as hard as I try, I can't make a good argument in his favor. His career numbers, while good, don't even approach Hall of Fame consideration.

.260 AVG, 275 home runs, 850 RBI.
He had 1,325 hits. 195 doubles. 42 triples. He stole 21 bases.
His career slash line .345 OBP/.476 SLG/.822 OPS is good, but not great by any means.

Besides his two MVP seasons, he hit over 30 home runs in one other season, 1962, when he hit 33. That was also the only other season when he drove in 100 or more runs, at 100 exactly.
He hit 28 home runs in 1958, 23 home runs in 1963, and 26 in 1964. After the 1964 season, when he was 30 years old, he'd never hit more than 13 home runs in a single season again.

Roger didn't perform well in the post season, either. He was a .217 hitter in 41 career post season games. He had 33 hits in 152 at bats, with 6 home runs and 18 RBI. His .298 OBP/.369 SLG/.667 OPS wouldn't exactly excite the Veterans Committee.

Try as I may, the only thing Roger has going for him are his two MVP seasons, and there are other players with much better careers that have won two MVPs, and not made it into the Hall of Fame (Dale Murphy, for one, comes to mind).

[bbcard1]

Understanding this is a pre-war board and I am likely to open myself up to some criticism here…we have throughly exhausted good candidates from the pre-1950 era and, if we could, should probably remove several of them. The 1960s and 1970s are pretty underrepresented, especially the 60s where offense was so throttled.

[wolf441]

I also wonder how the marginal pre-1947 HOFers (Hafey, Marquard, Bresnahan, Klein, Bottomly, etc...) would have done if they had to pitch against players similar to Willie Mays, Henry Aaron or had to hit against Bob Gibson, Juan Marichal, etc...

[frankbmd]

Imagine a world where every prewar player and batboy was in the Hall of Fame and our collections were worth millions as a result. All in favor.........

[Jim65]

I try not to judge players I never saw, not really fair to judge on stats alone. The only player I would put in thats not already is Mike Piazza, I believe he will get in eventually

There are quite a few players I would take out though.

[Jayworld]

I think Gene Tenace. He ranks 13th in JAWS on the catcher's list, above several HOF players:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/jaws_C.shtml

Also, Thurmon Munson

[sniffy5]

There is a Hall of Fame A and a Hall of Fame B. HOF A players you don't even have to think about. There is not a whole lot of them. HOF B are players require a hard look. Lots of people think requiring a hard look should be reason enough to prevent a player's induction. And I agree. Of course it's way more complicated than that b/c some feel 300 wins means automatic Hall, others don't think that is so. That's one example of many.

As for Clemens and Bonds, most writers are quick to point out they they were Hall of Famers before their embarrassingly obvious and shameless PED use. But I'm not entirely sure. Clemens got up to Toronto in 1997, dyed his hair blond and found the fountain of youth, and we all know what that fountain was comprised of. His numbers before PED use: 192-111, 3.16. Are these the numbers of a sure fire, absolutely no doubt hall of famer? Maybe they are. Maybe they are not...