Biggest Jerks in the HOF

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by packs

But I understand the world.

Understand the World as Mark Fenara-Wada wrote and Pedro Gomez reported it?

It's clear you separate these guys, particularly Bonds as being motivated by jealousy and insecurity (credit Mark FW for shaping opinions there) rather than simply cheating to win.. and for some reason that's far worse and excludes him from Hall consideration, while other cheaters get a pass.

My comment and understanding of the world is that people generally want to do well... particluarly competitive athletes. Not assuming I know their minds, but do think it is naive to make the opposite assumption that Gaylord Perry is only cheating to better his team and his not taking his own perfomance on the mound into consideration.

I guess if you're not 700+ HR or 7 Cy Young Award good, you must only be cheating to win. Keeping a job or increasing your earnings doesn't factor at all, right?

As a Giants fan who probably saw 50+ Bonds HRs in person and loved every one, I don't particularly like that he holds the HR record. However, I also don't like seeing how he and Clemens given such a higher level of scrutiny than the rest. They seem to take the brunt for the whole era, which is nuts because IMO "the era" is far from over and many many players are still probably juicing.

[packs]

What do you mean by giving a pass? I said all cheating is bad.

Bonds and Clemens weren't trying to earn a roster spot. So again, I do think that makes their motivations distinctly different from a fringe player.

It was about the legacy. And that's why I see them as insecure.

I don't mean to make light of Perry's method. But I don't think he was trying to break anyone's record when he spit on those baseballs. But I do think Bonds was trying to break someone's record when he juiced. And I do think Clemens wanted to be seen as the greatest pitcher of all time when he juiced.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by packs

What do you mean by giving a pass? I said all cheating is bad.

Bonds and Clemens weren't trying to earn a roster spot. So again, I do think that makes their motivations distinctly different from a fringe player.
.

OK, "giving a pass" may be too strong, but I don't see why Bonds' and Clemens' motivations were worse than others'. The fact they weren't fringe players can actually be argued as being less impactful to the dozens, maybe hundreds of other guys who couldn't hold a big league job due to people juicing. The fact that Bonds and Clemens would've been on the rosters at least means they didn't take someone else's job.

I'm not a Bonds/Clemens apologist, but I do think all who juiced did wrong.. and I'd guess most did it for personal gain, whether driven by jealousy or want for records, or just want for better stats and a secure job.