assault weapon ban again

[jhs5120]

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[jandr272]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Unfortunately it's easier to get an assault rifle than cough syrup in some states and police are the ones suffering the consequences.

Do you have any sources to back this up? The majority of police deaths are actually vehicular, followed by handguns.

No-knock warrants are Gestapo tactics, and cops in military gear with fully automatic weapons, flashbangs and armored vehicles are the sign of an overbearing government, not advances in technology. A quick search of google will come up with more incidents of cops screwing up no-knock raids than getting hurt in them. Things like throwing a flashbang in a toddler's playpen and burning 70% of his body, killing beloved family pets, etc. The justification for most no-knock warrants? The subject they are trying to serve is "known to carry weapons" or it is a drug charge.

[jhs5120]

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

There are more than 30 states that DO NOT require any form of photo ID to obtain an assault rifle.

If anyone buys a gun from a licensed dealer (no matter which state they reside in), you have to fill out Form 4473 from the federal government and present a government issued id.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_4473

That article is talking about private sales from one person to another (although it conveniently fails to mention that).

The cough syrup argument has been worn out now.

[jhs5120]

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It still stands, I can go to any gun show in Texas and purchase an assault rifle without showing ID.

And it's still wrong, but at least you're consistent.

You can purchase an assault rifle from an individual, not a dealer, at a gun show in Texas without an id. If you're going to say that, you need to be clear on the matter. You make it sound as if nobody is requiring paperwork or checking ids. Besides, good luck finding an assault rifle for sale from an individual at a gun show. Most people are holding onto them.

[vintagetoppsguy]

And for that matter, can't you pretty much buy a gun in any state from an individual without an id? Are all those shootings in Chicago committed with guns purchased with an id, or do you think most are committed with guns purchased without an id? But, wait, isn't Illinois one of the states that requires an id to purchase a gun? So doesn't that mean that people disregarding the law?

[jhs5120]

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[jandr272]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

There are more than 30 states that DO NOT require any form of photo ID to obtain an assault rifle. I went to my local Shop Rite yesterday and I need to provide my driver's license to pick up cough syrup AND I was limited to only one.

I was asking you to source where officers have been injured or killed by firearms defined as assault rifles.

The Military Transfer Program was originally enacted during George HW Bush's administration. The program isn't so much the government sending police military weapons, but police officers and local officials requesting them. This is the doing of local government/local police forces. If anyone is overbearing, it is them.

It only matters that they have them, and the feds aren't exactly charging them retail. I doubt the Podunk county sheriff has a spare couple of million dollars for a MRAP lying around.

I'm not going to risk my life because the "beloved family dog" of a meth head might get an ear ache.

I was talking about "mishaps" a bit more serious:



That is the result of an overzealous cop with a flashbang. Guess what, nothing has been done to the officer either "it was a tragic mistake" says the department.

Okay, the whole "Militarized Police Force" scare is ridiculous. Gun rights activists argue that Assault Rifles are a necessary tool for protection for every day citizens, but if a police officer (who might actually need such weapons) want to protect themselves the second amendment goes right out the door!

I'm arguing against military tactics and equipment such as flashbangs and light machine guns (as opposed to assault rifles). Allowing cops to carry weapons normal citizens can't creates a citizenry that has more rights than the rest. And the scare isn't ridiculous, because historically when governments stop fearing their own citizens, liberty doesn't last long.

Also, why would a cop need say, a fully automatic M4? Who are they going to be engaging at 300m where they need the capability to fire 600 rounds per minute? I understand deploying flashbangs when clearing an actively hostile room, but for the standard no-knock felony warrant, when the occupants of the room aren't even known? I'm saying the cops here are using tactics we used in Iraq to clear buildings and the vast majority of the time they are swatting flies with a shotgun!

I couldn't care less if the process to purchase handguns and rifles becomes even more stringent or requires basic safety training... but allowing citizens such as cops to have more rights than the rest of citizenry is unconstitutional, plain and simple.

[jhs5120]

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[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It was a tragic mistake and unavoidable mistake. If I'm raiding the house of a known meth dealer with a history of gun violence and drug related charges, I'm bringing everything I got. They didn't know there was a kid inside and more steps should have been taken to ensure they knew the entire situation, but I'm not going to ban no-knock warrants because one crack baby (not to sound cruel).

I'm sorry, but this was completely avoidable. If you are going to "no knock" raid someone's house, you should know who lives in that house. Due diligence is required. No amount of drugs is worth this type of "mistake". It's a baby-why you would call this infant a "crack baby" is repugnant. No knock warrants , in my opinion, should only be for people wanted for the most serious felonies, like murder, robbery, rape, etc. Not because their "confidential informant" bought a small amount of drugs from a guy OUTSIDE of the home.

Accidents in this line of work are bound to happen.....but if you haven't noticed-everything is "a mistake", and they promise "a thorough investigation". But-they end up cleared, as usual.

It's not popular to point out police abuse, but enough is enough! Kelly Thomas-that's what did it for me- it's time for a major discussion on this type of behavior. The good police need to start speaking up-and if they see a fellow officer who can't handle the stress of the job and is a potential danger to the public, they need to let their supervisor know and remove him or her.

The war on drugs brought us all of this gestapo style crap.....it needs to be fixed. I have a lot of respect for these LEO's- L.E.A.P.- Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. Veteran police, judges, correction officers, detectives, etc......who are speaking out about the damage and absurdity that the war on drugs has brought us as a country. I would highly recommend watching this-startling statistics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsk8R_j5zzg

Want to know how controlled our media is? Did you realize Mexico decriminalized ALL street drugs a few years back? I honestly didn't know until I watched this video.....then I researched it, and I couldn't believe it. WTF?

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

It was a tragic mistake and unavoidable mistake. If I'm raiding the house of a known meth dealer with a history of gun violence and drug related charges, I'm bringing everything I got. They didn't know there was a kid inside and more steps should have been taken to ensure they knew the entire situation, but I'm not going to ban no-knock warrants because one crack baby (not to sound cruel).

I'm not sure where you are getting your information about the story^^ but it almost sounds like you are talking about something different. This was not a "crack baby" (as if that even makes a difference-a baby is a baby)- but I didn't read anything about a history of gun violence. Maybe I missed that. But, if you read the end of this report, you will see they located their subject, and without hesitation or confrontation, he WILLINGLY went with police. So, all of this militarized B/S was UNNECESSARY.

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/...ams-raids-aclu

As far as the original topic- the reason they want "gun control" has NOTHING to do with any of the killings in the past 6 years. If your eyes were wide open, you would understand what I'm saying. With all due respect.

Sincerely, Clayton

[jhs5120]

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[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I'm not going to risk my life because the "beloved family dog" of a meth head might get an ear ache. Think.

Today, reported by AP:

http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-officer-su...204342108.html

What a guy.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jandr272

Do you have any sources to back this up? The majority of police deaths are actually vehicular, followed by handguns.

No-knock warrants are Gestapo tactics, and cops in military gear with fully automatic weapons, flashbangs and armored vehicles are the sign of an overbearing government, not advances in technology. A quick search of google will come up with more incidents of cops screwing up no-knock raids than getting hurt in them. Things like throwing a flashbang in a toddler's playpen and burning 70% of his body, killing beloved family pets, etc. The justification for most no-knock warrants? The subject they are trying to serve is "known to carry weapons" or it is a drug charge.

+1 agreed here. What used to be something that they did on a rare occasion years ago, has now become the norm. What you cited about the flashbang in the toddler's playpen was horrific, and I saw the pictures. I think the baby was something like 19 months old, and the burns were so bad they had to put the baby in a medically induced coma. The poor baby's face was burnt almost completely. Why did this happen? Because a confidential informant bought some meth from a family member OUTSIDE OF THE HOUSE. No knock raids should be outlawed. But, the arrest is the number one priority and screw everything else. Time to high five each other for another "bust".......wow! What a rush, huh?

What's wrong with waiting for the subject to walk out of the home and arrest him? If they have proof he sold to an informant, and that was enough to get a warrant, why not kick back and wait for him to come outside, rather than terrorize a whole family?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this, thanks for your post.

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Personally, I liked your original unedited post much better

I guess I'm a little bias because I have friends in the force. I have no problem with police forces using recycled military gear (it's better than Bush selling them to Sadam Hussein). I think the best quote of the article is this:



Unfortunately it's easier to get an assault rifle than cough syrup in some states and police are the ones suffering the consequences. If I were to put my life on the line each day I'd probably push towards better gear. Wouldn't you? That's a serious question Clayton. If you were a police officer and you had the opportunity to better protect yourself, would you? I know I would. I would grab as many assault rifles, MRAPs, tanks, grenade launchers and whatever I can get my hands on.

Thanks Jason, I edited it out because after reading it over again in the morning I felt like "what's the use". I could fill up pages of what I feel is wrong with this Country, but unless people are aware of the things I'm talking about-it doesn't resonate.

To answer your question though- it is a much deeper situation than police wanting better gear. But, we are going beyond just "better gear", we are bringing the military structure to the police force-from the dress, to the vehicles, to the weapons, to the tactics.......I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in the "new war zone". I look at it this way. These police voluntarily signed up to do this job. They chose it as a career path. They are choosing to put their lives on the line for a paycheck. The same way I drove public transportation for years. Guess what? I drove through the worst areas in this city every night I worked-putting my life on the line- with NO WEAPON AT ALL. You don't think I had to deal with hostile drunks, people tweaked out on who knows what, fights, child abuse, elder abuse, gang bangers in droves? But- it's called "communication skills". I treated people with respect, and for the most part, got it in return. Sure, I had situations that I had to quell (quite often).....but it's called "reasoning" instead of "force".

I know driving a bus is not the same as being a cop, but I dealt with the public just the same. We were trained to handle situations without needing weapons.

You think a militarized police force is a ridiculous issue, but I don't think you see the whole picture here. Look up NDAA 2012 Section 1021 & 1022. Look how they are killing people who are unarmed left and right-and always getting away with it by saying " the officer was in fear of his/her life" and being put on PAID LEAVE-just to be cleared. If these cops want to be the leaders of the community, then hold them accountable when they murder an innocent victim. They should be held to a higher standard-you kill an unarmed innocent civilian, 25 to life. I bet the abuse would end quick. Independent review of the case by a body of the public they are serving. Same goes for politicians. They should be held to a higher standard, and if they abuse their power they go to prison, end of story.

Because the public sees what they get away with, police and politicians, they lose faith in the system and there's no trust. Social decay. People who don't even break the law are afraid of police. This is why militarizing them does nothing more create an atmosphere of hostility and fear-just the way the politicians want it.

End the war on drugs,,,,,,,,,that is (in my opinion) a way to start healing this nation. Let adults be adults and make their own decisions on what they want to put in their bodies. If they aren't harming anyone else, give them the freedom to choose.Prohibition does not work-proven fact. If they commit crimes because of their drug use(like burglary, robbery, car jacking, etc.), lock them up. Simple. Because, regardless, people are still and always will use drugs. And, I am NOT promoting drug use, just trying to use common sense. Locking people in cages and giving them felonies over a $20.00 bag of cocaine is absurd. That felony means that 75% of his/her job opportunities are gone. Addicts do recover and become productive- why limit their ambitions if they clean up their lives?

Lastly, I want every police officer to make it home safely every night. Just like I want every human to make it home safely every night.After all, we are all Americans, right?

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Oh yeah,and welcome to the U.S.of A. MS-13! Bring your machetes?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bers-entering/

Sincerely, Clayton

P.S. Who is allowing THIS B/S to continue? What about "National Security"?

[teetwoohsix]

And, finally, one quick search and it was not hard to find this story from your neck of the woods Jason:

http://jonathanturley.org/2014/02/25...e-allegations/

So, you don't see a problem militarizing the police? I found this story in a second, and it wasn't even the one I was thinking about- which was a kid who was pulled over, and beaten when he tried to grab his paycheck from blowing out of the car.

These stories are all over the country like an epidemic. I think it has to do with the way police are being trained, and how they are treating the public. I want our society to have faith and trust in the police-not fear. Stories like this should be a rare incident. The whole nation should have learned from the Rodney King beating, but I guess not.

Sincerely, Clayton

[jhs5120]

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Oh yeah,and welcome to the U.S.of A. MS-13! Bring your machetes?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...bers-entering/

Sincerely, Clayton

P.S. Who is allowing THIS B/S to continue? What about "National Security"?

From the article...

I’ve heard people come in and say, ‘You’re going to let me go, just like you let my mother go, just like you let my sister go. You’re going to let me go as well, and the government’s going to take care of us,’”

Sadly, it's true.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

From the article...

I’ve heard people come in and say, ‘You’re going to let me go, just like you let my mother go, just like you let my sister go. You’re going to let me go as well, and the government’s going to take care of us,’”

Sadly, it's true.

We need to call it what it is- a foreign invasion. And, our corrupt politicians are sitting back and letting it happen. It's way worse than that article, they are allowing it on purpose. And, again, where is DHS? What about "National Security"? How many terrorists have came across? Is this not treason?

Sincerely, Clayton

[jhs5120]

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[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I disagree with you on "police militarization." Again, I'm a little bias because I have friends in the force and I'm a second amendment supporter. Unfortunately, police are charged with defending us against a militarized nation. On US soil, people are getting blown up in the streets, shot down in movie theatres by men armed with grenades, bullet proof vests and assault rifles. Americans are getting shot down at school, at grocery stores and in their own homes. America has become a militarized nation and the people defending us against ourselves need to be prepared for a new wave of domestic terrorists. That's just a fact.

Well, I can understand the bias seeing that you have friends in the force. I think we would probably all agree that there are good people in law enforcement, good judges, etc.. But, I think you may be way off in thinking that 99% are good. That is a bit fantasy sounding to me, I can search the internet and find TONS of video's showing various instances of police corruption,brutality, and downright murder.And these are instances of where they were recorded. It would be nice if every department across the nation was 99% Serpico and 1% corrupt, but unfortunately that doesn't appear to be the case.

I think you are way off to think America(as in American citizens) has become a militarized nation-this screams of cable media brainwashing to me. New wave of domestic terrorists? Yeah, I think you've been falling for the propaganda (no offense). How many people live here? 330,000,000 or so? They feed you no stop with the Santa Barbara kid- but not a peep about Chicago. Right now, if you haven't noticed, they are trying to convince us (Americans) that we need to "intervene in Iraq". No, we need to intervene at our own border! We need to fix our problems HERE. It's propaganda, and it's sick.

Here's the cold hard truth:

http://www.activistpost.com/2014/06/...ty-become.html

All I can say is I hope people wake up to this evil. And quick.

Sincerely, Clayton

[jhs5120]

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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

There are an estimated 300,000,000 guns in America; or more than one for every able bodied citizen.

I guess I am way over my limit then

[jhs5120]

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