When is it okay to cancel a sale?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Agreed, but I guess there really is very little need to keep some information past 6 months. I mean, who ever heard of a credit card charge back 7 months after the fact?

Personally I would be calling that credit card company and give them 2 options. Give me my money back or cancel it right now. Pick one. There are a billion credit cards you can get. Last time I had a charge back like that taken from my bank account, it was after 2 months and was a merchant CC account I had already canceled, I closed the bank account associated with it the next day. It never happened again .

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally I would be calling that credit card company and give them 2 options. Give me my money back or cancel it right now. Pick one. There are a billion credit cards you can get. Last time I had a charge back like that taken from my bank account, it was after 2 months and was a merchant CC account I had already canceled, I closed the bank account associated with it the next day. It never happened again .

I wish it was through my Credit Card company! I would've been on them like a freaking banshee! The buyer cancelled the transaction on his end with his credit card. He paid through PayPal (with his credit card) so PayPal immediately withdrew his funds from my account pending the "investigation".


Andy, signature confirmation would be a must, I agree. I'm just worried he would try something funny down the road. In terms of paper trail, one method I have done before was have a generic document stating the buyer has inspected the item and received it w/o issue. I have him sign it and then I take a picture of his drivers license next to the signature. Usually people don't have an issue.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I wish it was through my Credit Card company! I would've been on them like a freaking banshee! The buyer cancelled the transaction on his end with his credit card. He paid through PayPal (with his credit card) so PayPal immediately withdrew his funds from my account pending the "investigation".


Andy, signature confirmation would be a must, I agree. I'm just worried he would try something funny down the road. In terms of paper trail, one method I have done before was have a generic document stating the buyer has inspected the item and received it w/o issue. I have him sign it and then I take a picture of his drivers license next to the signature. Usually people don't have an issue.

And that is why I almost always transfer money over approximately $100 from my paypal account to my bank account.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Leon

And that is why I almost always transfer money over approximately $100 from my paypal account to my bank account.

Does this really protect you in the long run? Can paypal take the funds from you bank account? If not will they just take the money back via any future sales rendering the account useless to you to use? Or is this just a delay tactic to force paypal to resolve the issue?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Does this really protect you in the long run? Can paypal take the funds from you bank account? If not will they just take the money back via any future sales rendering the account useless to you to use? Or is this just a delay tactic to force paypal to resolve the issue?

On one sale it definitely will protect you as there is nothing in your Paypal account for Paypal to take.
I don't think Paypal can generally take money from your bank account BUT they can certainly garnish any monies in your Paypal account. So, if you want to continue using Paypal you will have to deal with them. But I don't leave much in there just in case...I would rather play on my terms than theirs.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Leon

And that is why I almost always transfer money over approximately $100 from my paypal account to my bank account.

It wouldn't matter. I asked PayPal what would've happened if I didn't have enough funds to cover the $900 taken out of my account. They told me, $900 will still be removed from your account. If there is a negative balance, PayPal will provide a window to add funds to pay off the remainder. If the window passes they will freeze your account until it is paid. Any further delay would result in a collection agency.

Fun.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Personally I would be calling that credit card company and give them 2 options. Give me my money back or cancel it right now. Pick one. There are a billion credit cards you can get. Last time I had a charge back like that taken from my bank account, it was after 2 months and was a merchant CC account I had already canceled, I closed the bank account associated with it the next day. It never happened again .

I also wonder if it wouldn't be better to not accept credit card payments through Paypal - just make it bank accounts only. After reading the OP's thread regarding that '7 months later' fiasco, I'm feeling kind of paranoid, as I've accepted a few Paypal cc payments. Checking every transaction for delivery status and then saving copies seems excessive.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The guy paid you according to your terms. He doesn't have to accept personal delivery if he doesn't want to. You should follow through on your end.

[usernamealreadytaken]

Basically, the question is whether a seller can breach a contract with a buyer if better terms comes along. I don't think the answer to that question is very difficult . . .

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Basically, the question is whether a seller can breach a contract with a buyer if better terms comes along. I don't think the answer to that question is very difficult . . .

I don't think that is the question at all. The best terms are the ones that I am trying to get out of.

The question is; is a seller forced to complete a sale that he is genuinely uncomfortable making because he believes the buyer is trying to steal from him?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The guy paid you according to your terms. He doesn't have to accept personal delivery if he doesn't want to. You should follow through on your end.

I would argue that he paid $100 for "economy shipping" which could very well be personal delivery if that is the most economical method of delivery. If he declines I would almost argue that he's the one that is breaching his contract and I have the right to cancel the sale. 5 large boxes with a combined weight of 120-150 pounds all with signature confirmation and $2400 worth of insurance would easily cost more than a 2 hour round trip drive to NYC.

I think the greatest deterrence for a scammer would be showing up at his house and asking him to sign a contract that he received the sets without issue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Shipping does not suggest personal delivery to me. It implies shipping through a third party service. If you undercharged for shipping that is not the buyer's fault.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If you undercharged for shipping that is not the buyer's fault.

I 100% agree!

But, this isn't an issue of money. The man who is offering $800 MORE is the one I'd like to avoid. That $800 would easily make up for the extra $50-100 worth of shipping costs I will incur.

If anything, I'm doing him a favor because he paid way too much for these sets.

[usernamealreadytaken]

Depends on what the definition of is is . . .

If I bought something on Ebay and the seller insisted I meet him somewhere in New Jersey or he would cancel the sale that would raise a red flag for me . . .

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Depends on what the definition of is is . . .

If I bought something on Ebay and the seller insisted I meet him somewhere in New Jersey or he would cancel the sale that would raise a red flag for me . . .

For a single card, definitely. For 30,000 cards in 40 separate boxes? It's normal (especially if you're practically neighbors).

[usernamealreadytaken]

Okay, but if under the scenario given, the bed-ridden buyer asks, "Why did you break our deal?" I am not sure what the response would be? "I got screwed before." "You won't let me come to your house."

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Andy, signature confirmation would be a must, I agree. I'm just worried he would try something funny down the road. In terms of paper trail, one method I have done before was have a generic document stating the buyer has inspected the item and received it w/o issue. I have him sign it and then I take a picture of his drivers license next to the signature. Usually people don't have an issue.

The way you handle in-person delivery would help deter because even if it wasn't enough with paypal and ebay legally I would think it would be enough for small claims court.

I really am with you, you are constantly told be cautious yet now you are expected to go through with the deal even though your instincts tell you this isn't a good situation.

Until this thread I never even looked into the chargeback fraud, now it has me worried. It seems to me the only way a company could protect both the seller and buyer is if they acted as a shipping company where they took the items and shipped them for you. Similar to COMC or auction houses.

[Bocabirdman]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Depends on what the definition of is is . . .

If I bought something on Ebay and the seller insisted I meet him somewhere in New Jersey or he would cancel the sale that would raise a red flag for me . . .

Go to the Pine Barrens and ask for a fella named Vinnie Two-Chins. He'll take care of you.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I would argue that he paid $100 for "economy shipping" which could very well be personal delivery if that is the most economical method of delivery.

I think you're right here. He paid for shipping and, unless you specified a shipping service, how you ship them is up to you. Personally, I would do just as you suggested (as long as it's not a major inconvenience) and deliver them yourself. In fact, he doesn't even have to know it's you that's delivering them. As far as he has to know, it could be a courier service. You have his address from the PayPal notification, deliver them.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I would argue that he paid $100 for "economy shipping" which could very well be personal delivery if that is the most economical method of delivery. If he declines I would almost argue that he's the one that is breaching his contract and I have the right to cancel the sale. 5 large boxes with a combined weight of 120-150 pounds all with signature confirmation and $2400 worth of insurance would easily cost more than a 2 hour round trip drive to NYC.

I think the greatest deterrence for a scammer would be showing up at his house and asking him to sign a contract that he received the sets without issue.

So go ahead and do that then. You have the guy's shipping address. Also, be prepared to haul everything back with you if the guy doesn't come to the door when you knock for his signature, which is the same thing the post office or UPS or Fed-Ex or whoever does if the shipment requires signature on delivery and the recipient isn't home. The difference is, they have a facility in the buyer's area, and run a route in his area on a daily basis, so bringing the packages back the next day to try again isn't as big a deal.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

So go ahead and do that then. You have the guy's shipping address. Also, be prepared to haul everything back with you if the guy doesn't come to the door when you knock for his signature, which is the same thing the post office or UPS or Fed-Ex or whoever does if the shipment requires signature on delivery and the recipient isn't home. The difference is, they have a facility in the buyer's area, and run a route in his area on a daily basis, so bringing the packages back the next day to try again isn't as big a deal.

I have been trying to set up a date with the buyer that works for him. If he really is bed ridden any date should work (hypothetically), but he has not responded to the two emails I have sent him over the past 4 days (which to me is a red flag).

If he does not respond or does not agree; I feel that I am well within my right to cancel the transaction. I shouldn't be obligated to put myself at risk.

[thecatspajamas]

I might also add that I have always turned down offers to personally deliver items to my home for the simple reason that I don't want any schmoe who happens to have something that I want to buy dropping by the house where my wife, 2 young kids, and most of my worldly possessions reside. If the guy is actually bed-ridden, I can hardly blame him for not wanting you or anyone else to see him in that state or to have to trust that the stranger at his door really is only there to deliver the cards and won't take advantage of his disabled state. Sellers aren't the only ones who are allowed to be paranoid or see red flags.

Maybe seeing you face-to-face is enough of a deterrent that the guy won't try anything, or maybe he wouldn't have tried anything to start with. Just don't expect eBay to have your back because you specified vague shipping terms or opted to do something out of the norm that the buyer may or may not agree with. If the neg on eBay is more palatable to you than the risk of a chargeback, then go ahead and do what you've clearly intended to do from the start and cancel the transaction. You haven't presented anything here that would cause eBay/Paypal to side with you in any sort of claim on this transaction though. When it comes to an eBay/Paypal claim, what makes sense to you or what you are comfortable with has no bearing on the outcome, and all else being equal, eBay/Paypal will side with the buyer every time.

[ullmandds]

In light of current conversations about ebay...it seems that per ebay's rules...anytime is a good time to cancel a transaction on ebay!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I might also add that I have always turned down offers to personally deliver items to my home for the simple reason that I don't want any schmoe who happens to have something that I want to buy dropping by the house where my wife, 2 young kids, and most of my worldly possessions reside. If the guy is actually bed-ridden, I can hardly blame him for not wanting you or anyone else to see him in that state or to have to trust that the stranger at his door really is only there to deliver the cards and won't take advantage of his disabled state. Sellers aren't the only ones who are allowed to be paranoid or see red flags.

I agree with this sentiment. That being said I have met with local sellers at public places to pick up the item in the past and it was positive.

[veleno45]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I would argue that he paid $100 for "economy shipping" which could very well be personal delivery if that is the most economical method of delivery. If he declines I would almost argue that he's the one that is breaching his contract and I have the right to cancel the sale. 5 large boxes with a combined weight of 120-150 pounds all with signature confirmation and $2400 worth of insurance would easily cost more than a 2 hour round trip drive to NYC.

I think the greatest deterrence for a scammer would be showing up at his house and asking him to sign a contract that he received the sets without issue.

I think if a seller showed up at my door with items that would creep me out a little bit. That is too Craigslist for me.

[Stonepony]

" I have been trying to set up a date with the buyer that works for him. If he really is bed ridden any date should work (hypothetically), but he has not responded to the two emails I have sent him over the past 4 days (which to me is a red flag)."

I've lost track of how many red flags you've accumulated. My opinion is you made the deal and should honor it... Despite it being so dang scary for you.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't understand why some are making this complicated. All Jason has to do is tell the buyer that he is sending the boxes via currier, and make arrangements for the buyer to be there at a certain day/time for delivery. A currier service is very reasonable in this case given the distance and the weight. Instead of using an actual service, Jason makes the delivery himself. The buyer never knows the difference. See how simple?

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

" I have been trying to set up a date with the buyer that works for him. If he really is bed ridden any date should work (hypothetically), but he has not responded to the two emails I have sent him over the past 4 days (which to me is a red flag)."

I've lost track of how many red flags you've accumulated. My opinion is you made the deal and should honor it... Despite it being so dang scary for you.

Yeah who cares that you might loose out on $2700. Just like if you reply to an email from a Nigerian prince saying you will give him your bank account info when you get home. You better follow through no matter how much common sense tells you something is wrong.