The mystique of the SOVEREIGN 350 "apple green" cards......Show us your green apples

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by bwbc917

It seems that the apple green is everywhere these days. Do you have a list of cards with the 350 Forest green back??

WOW, that was a fast response below. THX

You're very welcome....and, stayed tuned as I will be posting more interesting information regarding these SOVEREIGN cards in the next post.


TED Z

[bwbc917]

I think I have another candidate for the Forest Green list with this Liebhartsov forest green jpg 001.jpg

t206 jpg 001.jpg

[tedzan]

The list I posted in Post #8 applies strictly to the 350-only Series cards.

The Liebhardt card is in the 150/350 Series. In this series there are approx. 80 subjects that were printed with both the SOVEREIGN 150
and SOVEREIGN 350 "forest green" backs.


TED Z

[bwbc917]

I'm learning more and more. Thanks for the help.

[t206hof]

My one and only Green Apple, Od Cy. I only collect mid tier and up Hallers and there are not many cards in the Apple subjects that come into play for me. Thanks. I would also like to Thank Ted for all his great info on all the backs throughout the years.

[atx840]

Here you go Ted.

[tedzan]

Nice CYoung card......thanx for posting it. It appears to me that it should have got a higher grade.

Here are 3 more HOFers for you to go for.

..................apple green backs

..................normal green back



T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by atx840

Here you go Ted.

We just cannot have enough red Cobb's.

Thanx for posting yours.


T-Rex TED

[tedzan]

I was asked.....why only 402 (different) cards in a complete SOVEREIGN set ? After all, SOVEREIGN is a major T206 brand.

The anwer is simple, there are exactly 122 subjects that were NOT printed with the SOVEREIGN advertisement.

So, for you set collectors on this forum....try the challenge of the SOVEREIGN set, here is the 402 card Checklist............


SOVEREIGN 150 (150 subjects)

Abbaticchio (brown sleeves)
Alperman
Ames (portrait)
Ames (hands at chest)
Ball (New York)
Bates
Beaumont
Bell (hands over head)
Bender (portrait)
Bergen (bat)
Birmingham
Bowerman
Bradley (portrait)
Bransfield
Bridwell (portrait-no cap)
Bresnahan (portrait)
M. Brown (portrait)
M. Brown (Cubs)
G. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (bat)

Camnitz (arms folded)
Chance (red portrait)
Chase (pink portrait)
Chase (white cap)
Chesbro
Cicotte
Clarke (portrait)
Clarke (bat)
JJ Clarke
Cobb (green)
Cobb (bat on shoulder)
Conroy (fielding)
Coveleski
Crandall (no cap)
Criger
Criss
Dahlen (Boston)
George Davis (Chicago)
Harry Davis (A's)
Delehanty (Washington)

Devlin
Donlin (fielding)
Donlin (seated)
Donohue
Donovan (portrait)
Dooin
Doolin
Dougherty (portrait)
L. Doyle (throwing)
Durham
Elberfeld (portrait-New York)
Evers (bat-Cubs)
Evers (portrait)
Ewing
Ferris
Flick
Ganley
Gibson
Gilbert
Goode

Griffith (portrait)
Hahn
Hemphill
Herzog (New York)
Hinchman (Cleveland)
Isbell
Jacklitsch
Johnson (portrait)
F. Jones (portrait)
F. Jones (hands at hips)
T. Jones (St Louis)
Jordan (portrait)
Joss (portrait)
Karger
Keeler (portrait)
Keeler (bat)
Killian (pitching)
Kleinow (bat)
Kling
Konetchy (glove high)

Lajoie (portrait)
Lajoie (throwing)
Lake (New York)
Leach (portrait)
Leifield (pitching)
Liebhardt
Lindaman
Lobert
Lumley
Magee (portrait)
Manning (bat)
Marquard (hands at side)
Mathewson (portrait)
Mathewson (white cap)
McGraw (portrait-no cap)
McGraw (pointing)
McIntyre (Brooklyn)
McQuillan (ball in hand)
Merkle
Mullin (throwing)

Murphy (throwing)
Nicholls (hands on knees)
Niles
Oldring (fielding)
O'Leary (portrait)
Overall (portrait)
Owen
Parent
Pastorius
Pattee
Pelty (horiz.)
Powell
Powers
Reulbach (glove)
Ritchey
Rucker (portrait)
Schaefer (Detroit)
Schlei (catching)
Schmidt (throwing)
Schulte (front view)

Seymour (bat)
Shaw (St Louis)
Sheckard (no glove)
Shipke
F. Smith (Chicago)
Spade
Spencer
Stahl (no glove)
Steinfeldt (portrait)
Stone
Stovall (portrait)
Sullivan
L Tannehill (Chicago)
Tenney
Tinker (portrait)
Tinker (hands on knees)
Turner
Waddell (portrait)
Waddell (throwing)
Wagner (bat on left)

Wallace
Walsh
Weimer
Doc White (portrait)
Wilhelm (hands at chest)
Williams
Willis (portrait)
Wiltse (portrait-no cap)
CYoung (portrait)
CYoung (bare hand)


SOVEREIGN 350 forest green (140 subjects)

Abbott
Anderson
Armbruster
Arndt
Atz
Barry (A's)
Barry (Milwaukee)
Batch
Beck
Beckley
Bender (trees)
Bescher (portrait)
Blackburne
Brain
Brown (Washington)
Burke
Burns
Bush
Butler
Byrne

Campbell
Carr
Carrigan
Casey
Cassidy
Chappelle
Clancy
Collins (A's)
Congalton
Crawford (throwing)
Cravath
Cree
Dahlen (portrait-Brooklyn)
Dineen
Donovan (throwing)
Doolan (fielding)
Downey (fielding)
Downs
Dubuc
Dunn (Baltimore)

Dunn (Brooklyn)
Dygert
Easterly
Egan
Ferguson
Fiene (portrait)
Fiene (throwing)
Flanagan
Fromme
Gasper
Graham (Boston)
Grimshaw
Hall
Hallman
Hannifan
Hartsel
Hinchman (Toledo)
Hoblitzell
Hoffman (Providence)
Hofman

Howard (Chicago)
Howell (portrait)
Huggins (portrait)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hulswitt
Jackson
Jennings (portrait)
Kelley
Killian (portrait)
Kisinger
Knabe
Knight (portrait)
Knight (bat)
Krause (portrait)
Krause (pitching)
Kroh
Kruger
Lavender
Lennox
Livingstone

Malarkey
Marquard (portrait)
McCormick
McGann
McGinley
McGinnity
McGlynn
McIntyre (Detroit)
Merritt
Milligan
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mitchell (Toronto)
Moeller
Moran (Chicago)
Moran (Providence)
Moriarty
Mowrey
Myers (fielding)
Oakes
Oberlin

O'Brien
O'Hara (New York)
O'Neill
Paskert
Perring
Pfeister (seated)
Phelan
Phelps
Pickering
Poland
Purtell
Quillen
Quinn
Randall
Raymond
Rhoades (hands/chest)
Schmidt (portrait)
Scott
Shaw (Providence)
Slagle

Smith (Buffalo)
Speaker
Stanage
Stephens
Strang
Street (portrait)
Summers
Sweeney (Boston)
J. Tannehill (Washington)
Taylor
Thielmann
Thomas
Titus
Unglaub
Warhop
White (Buffalo)
Wilson
Wright
Irv Young
Zimmerman



SOVEREIGN 350 apple green (66 subjects)

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Joe Doyle (arms over head)

Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (NY-catching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)

Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)
Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rhoades (arm at face level)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (white cap)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)

Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)



SOVEREIGN 460 (46 subjects)

Abbaticcio (blue sleeves)
Ball (Cleveland)
Bell (pitching)
Bergen (catching)
Bescher (arms above)
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
Camnitz (arms at side)
Camnitz (arms up)
Chance (bat)
Chase (trophy)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Devore
Doyle (portrait)
Duffy
Ford
Frill
Gandil
Geyer
Herzog (Boston)
Howell (hands at waist)

Hummell
Lake (with ball)
Latham
Marquard (follow thru)
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove at hip)
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers (portrait)
Murray (portrait)
Needham
Oldring (bat)
Overall (blue sky)
Payne
Pfeffer
Schaefer (Washington)
Schulte (back view)
Schlei (portrait)
Schlei (bat)
Seymour (portrait)
Sheckard (glove)

H. Smith (Brooklyn)
Stovall (bat)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Tinker (bat on)
Wheat
Wiltse (portrait-cap)



T-Rex TED
.

[HercDriver]

On a related subject, for the true Sovereign junkie, here's the T205 list:

1) Abbaticchio
2) Ames
3) Archer
4) Austin
5) Bailey
6) Ball
7) Bates
8) Becker
9) Bell
10) Bergen
11) Bescher
12) Birmingham
13) Blackburne
14) Bransfield
15) Bridwell
16) Brown
17) Chance
18) Chase (frame extends)
19) Cicotte
20) Clarke
21) Corridon
22) Crandall (t-crossed)
23) Daubert
24) Delahanty
25) Devlin
26) Devore
27) Dickson
28) Dooin
29) Doolan
30) Dougherty (white sock)
31) Downey
32) Duffy
33) Egan
34) Engle
35) Evans
36) Evers
37) Ewing
38) Ferguson
39) Fletcher
40) Flynn
41) Ford (Black Cap)
42) Foxen
43) Fromme
44) Gaspar
45) Gibson
46) Goode
47) Graham (Rustlers)
48) Gray (w/ stats)
49) Griffith
50) Groom
51) Harmon (Both Ears)
52) Hemphill
53) Herzog
54) Hoblitzell (Cin. after stats)
55) Hoffman
56) Huggins
57) Hummel
58) Jacklitsch
59) Jennings
60) Johnson
61) D. Jones
62) Killian
63) Kling
64) Knight
65) Laporte
66) Lang
67) Latham (A.)
68) Leach
69) Leever
70) Leifield (A.P.)
71) Lennox
72) Livingston
73) Lobert
74) B. Lord
75) H. Lord
76) Lush
77) Maddox
78) Magee
79) Marquard
80) Mathewson
81) McBride
82) McElveen
83) McGraw
84) H. McIntyre
85) M. McIntyre
86) McLean
87) Meyers
88) Mitchell
89) Moran (no stray line)
90) Moriarty
91) Mullin
92) Murray
93) Needham
94) Olmstead
95) Overall
96) Paskert
97) Payne
98) Pfiester
99) Phelps
100) Quinn
101) Reulbach
102) Richie
103) Rucker
104) Schlei
105) Schmidt
106) Scott
107) Sharpe
108) Shean (Boston)
109) Simmons
110) Snodgrass
111) Stahl
112) Stanage
113) Steinfeldt
114) Stone
115) Stovall
116) Summers
117) Thomas
118) Tinker
119) Wheat
120) Willet
121) Wiltse (both ears)
122) Wolter
123) Young

Take Care,
Geno

[tedzan]

Us AIR FORCE guys love those SOVEREIGN cards.

Thanks for posting the T205 list.


TED Z

[tedzan]

The biggest challenge I had in putting together this SOVEREIGN set was determining the SOVEREIGN NO-PRINTS (N-P). The subjects I refer to as the "Big Seven"
and the 48 Southern Leaguers were obvious N-P. By November 2007, I was confident I had figured out the remaining subjects that American Litho. did NOT print
with the SOVEREIGN back. So, I published my list of 122 subjects.

Seven years have transpired since then....and, it certainly appears that my N-P list has withstood the test of time. These 122 NO-PRINTS are identified here......


The "BIG SEVEN" NO-PRINTS......

Demmitt (St Louis American)
J. Doyle (N.Y. Nat'L)
Lundgren (Cubs)
Magie
O'Hara (St Louis Nat'l)
Plank
Honus Wagner


350-only Series NO-PRINTS (65 subjects)......

Abstein
Adkins
Arrellanes
Barbeau
Barger
Becker
Bliss
Brashear
Bresnahan (bat)
Burchell
Charles
Clark
Clymer
J. Collins (Minn.)
Cross
Davidson
Delehanty (Louisville)
Demmitt (New York American)
Dessau
Dorner

Downey (fielding)
Elberfeld (portrait-Washington)
Engle
Evans
Fletcher
Freeman
Ganzel
Graham (St Louis AL)
Gray
Groom
Hayden
Hoffman (St Louis AL)
Hunter
Jones (portrait Detroit)
La Porte
Lattimore
Lord
Lundgren (Kansas City)
Maddox
Maloney

Marshall
Mattern
McAleese
McBride
McElveen
McLean
Milan
Miller (Pittsburg)
Mullen (portrait)
Murray (bat)
Myers (bat)
Nattress
Phillippe
Puttman
Rhodes
Ritter
Rudolph
Schirm
Schlafly
Schreck

Shannon
Sharpe
Snodgrass (bat)
Starr
Willett


460-only Series NO-PRINTS......

Kleinow (Boston)
Smith (Chicago & Boston)


And, the 48 Southern Leaguers are NO-PRINTS.



T-Rex TED
.

[Jantz]

Hope you don't mind Ted, but the only thing I can contribute to this thread is a Sovereign with a crop line.

Upper left corner on the back.


Jantz

[tedzan]

Your inputs are always welcome.

I'm still looking for 2 (different) name cards from the 350/460 series. Especially with SOVEREIGN backs.

Have you seen any lately ?

Please contact me if you do.


Best regards good buddy,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Hey guys,

One more try in asking for any Same Name or Dual Name cards from the 350/460 series. I have not seen any. So, I'm looking to fellow collectors of these types
of T206's [Chris Browne, Jantz, Johnny V, Doug (Phillies*phan), etc.] to chime in here with some interesting stuff. Especially any cards with SOVEREIGN 350 apple
green backs would be greatly appreciated.




v................................................. ....... Six super-prints .................................................. ....v








Here is the list of these 66 subjects displayed here on this simulated 72-card sheet............

Six Super-Prints

Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase (blue portrait)
Chase (dark cap)
Cobb (red portrait)
Evers (Chicago-yellow sky)
Mathewson (dark cap)


60 subjects

Ames (hands over head)
Baker
Bender (no trees)
Berger
Bradley (bat)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Burch (fielding)
Cobb (bat off shoulder)
Conroy (bat)
Crawford (bat)
Harry Davis (A's)
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Downey (bat)
Joe Doyle (arms over head)
Larry Doyle (bat)
Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
Griffith (bat)
Jennings (one hand)

Jennings (two hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Jordan (bat)
Joss (pitching)
Kleinow (NY-catching)
Konetchy (glove low)
Lajoie (bat)
Lake, St. Louis (no ball)
Leach (cap)
Leifeld (bat)
Magee (bat)
Manning (pitching)
McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago)
McQuillan (bat)
Mullin (bat)
Murphy (bat)
Nichols (bat)
O'Leary (hands on knees)
Overall (yellow sky)
Pelty (vertical)

Pfeister (throwing)
Reulbach (no glove)
Rhoades (arm at face level)
Rucker (throwing)
Seymour (throwing)
F. Smith (white cap)
Snodgrass (catching)
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street (catching)
Sweeney (fielding)
Tinker (bat off shoulder)
Wagner (bat on right)
Doc White (Chicago-pitching)
Wilhelm (bat)
Willetts
Willis (throwing)
Willis (bat)
Wiltse (pitching)
CYoung (glove)


Thanks in advance for your inputs,


T-Rex TED
.

[Jantz]

Hi Ted

I've seen quite a few two same name T206s from the 350-460 series, but never a two different name from the 350-460 series.

Can't recall ever seeing a two same namer with an apple green Sovereign back either, I do have scans of two forest green Sovereigns.

Here is a few.

Jantz

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Until I read this thread I didn't understand what an "apple green" Sovereign looked like.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Jantz

Hi Ted

I've seen quite a few two same name T206s from the 350-460 series, but never a two different name from the 350-460 series.

Can't recall ever seeing a two same namer with an apple green Sovereign back either, I do have scans of two forest green Sovereigns.

Here is a few.

Jantz

Here are the 4 two same name SOVEREIGN cards I have, No apple green ones, though.







Also, for your record keeping.....a two same name Frank Smith (Chicago & Boston) with an American Beauty 460 back.....and, a Schulte with a Piedmont 150 back.










TED Z
.

[jimq]

I think this is an apple green, it's my only Sovereign 350 so nothing to compare it to.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by jimq

I think this is an apple green, it's my only Sovereign 350 so nothing to compare it to.

Hi

Very nice looking Joss.....however, this card's back is not apple green.

The Joss (portrait) was printed in the 150/350 series. All the backs of the cards in this series are the normal green color.

Joss (pitching) has a SOVEREIGN 350 apple green back.

Please check-out the 66-card apple green checklist (Post #27).


Thanks for displaying your card.

TED Z

[jimq]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Joss (pitching) has a SOVEREIGN 350 apple green back.

Please check-out the 66-card apple green checklist (Post #27).


Thanks for displaying your card.

TED Z

Sorry, still learning. I found a different Joss in my card box, side by side the difference is easy!

[t206hof]

Ha, Ted as far as toughness goes in what order would you rank the Sovereigns from 1 to 4 in you experiences putting the sets together? Thanks. Dennis.

[philliesphan]

Is this Doolan batting Apple Green?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131205339848

[Sean]

Mark, yes, it's definitely Apple Green.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by t206hof

Ha, Ted as far as toughness goes in what order would you rank the Sovereigns from 1 to 4 in you experiences putting the sets together? Thanks. Dennis.

An interesting question, Dennis

I'll describe my experience which will not be typical.

In November of 2006, I had completed my all-PIEDMONT set of 519 cards. I really enjoyed the challenge of that project, so I got started on an all SOVEREIGN set
with only 22 Sovereign cards in my collection. But, I was very lucky. Barry Sloate had acquired a collection of 300+ Sovereign cards. I won 262 cards from Barry's
auction.
Eleven months later, November 2007, I completed the Sovereign set of 402 different cards. Plus, an additional 6 cards of the rare SOVEREIGN 460 versions of the
six Super-Prints.

So, I really cannot give you an accurate number of how tough it is to put together this set. I'm sure it would have taken me several years to complete it, if I had
not acquired those 262 Sovereign cards. However, I can tell you that the toughest part of completing this set will be the "hunt" for these 66 "apple green" cards.


Anyway, on any given day on Ebay, there are 200+ assorted Sovereign cards to choose from. Furthermore, on occasion, Sovereign's show up in Auctions, or in BB
card shows. Therefore, I would suggest to anyone considering working on this Sovereign run of 402 cards, unless you are a very patient collector, wait for a large
"find" of Sovereign cards to surface and acquire them.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Let's continue the conversation on this subject a little longer with this interesting bit of information.

OK, the 66 apple green Sovereign's represent 16.5% of the 402 cards in the Sovereign set.

Yet, on any given day on Ebay, there are 200 - 300 Sovereign cards listed. On the average, only 8% of these cards are the apple green cards.

This fact is statistically consistent with my earlier contention that these 66 subjects are considerably tougher to find than the other 336 cards
that make up this set.

Furthermore, data from large T206 surveys also support this premise.


T-Rex TED
.