Same cert #, DIFFERENT flips and cards (52 Topps Mantle)

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by MattyC

The second listed card is in a breached slab; the rear view gives it away-- the entire right edge has been compromised clear as day. Front scan was taken against white background to mask it but the back scan against black background makes it a dead giveaway.

I kind of are what you mean but am not as confident.


Sent using Tapatalk

[MattyC]

Beyond barcodes and fonts, important answers lie on the card...

A key detail is the borders. The lower black border is uncharacteristically thick. It also does not form a perfect right angle with the vertical black borderlines. This variation should form much cleaner lower and top left angles than the ebay example. I just examined several specimens of this variation on VCP, and none exhibit a lower horizontal black border like this ebay example.

The stars within the black seem to be a different size than normal-- smaller.

Lastly, this variation tends to have an gently inward sloping black border on the right side-- to the point where one can just see some of the registration of the card "bleeding" out beyond the border line. With this card on ebay, the right border remains straight and perfectly flush.

Circling back to the flip, I don't like the spacing between the lines of text on the right of the flip. The lines are spaced tighter as I recall. The bar code also seems much too close to the red bottom of the flip.

It seems this ebay card is some type of Frankenstein creation that exhibits characteristics of both variations, along with wholly new traits. I'd pass all day.

Here is a comparison to a known legit example.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

I kind of are what you mean but am not as confident.


Sent using Tapatalk

Yeah I thought that might just be the camera flash?

[MattyC]

I think the flash would create a similar effect on the other side, yet there are areas of slab border that seem quite clear. Granted, angles and light can be tricky. Yet while frosting is very normal, and often guys do hit the panic button unnecessarily, in this case it runs the entire length of one side-- which is a no-no.

Taken alongside all the other observations pointed out above, I personally would pass.

People love to look for sweet deals on the 311. But a sweet deal on this card is a chimera-- it is bait to scam those hoping to beat the market and "steal" one. To get a real Mantle 311 centered like this ebay example, one has to man up and pay much stronger than the 17k or whatever this seller will accept. At auction this card-- if it were legit-- would need a 20-25k bid to be in contention at the final seconds. End of the day, the best defense against offerings like this ebay example is embracing the fact that there's just no nickel-and-diming a centered 311-- too many people know how rare such a specimen is, and want one for their collections.

The feedback profile also does not inspire consumer confidence, in my opinion.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

To get a real Mantle 311 centered like this ebay example, one has to man up and pay much stronger than the 17k or whatever this seller will accept. At auction this card-- if it were legit-- would need a 20-25k bid to be in contention at the final seconds.

That card is a 4 -- and a pretty damn spectacular SGC 5.5 just sold for 29 and change in Goodwin. Maybe one doesn't have to use his balls but just his brain to get such a card for a good price?

[Ksquared]

I don't think the flip looks right for two reasons:

1- the word "topps" in 1952 topps doesn't line up over the name like Matt's card. All other examples i've looked at on VCP and ebay line up like Matt's card.

2- i always scan the bar code on cards that I have questions about. Take a bar code scanner app and scan Matt's card. You'll get a reading back that matches his cert#. Scan the other card and you get a string of numbers that don't match.

I don't think it's real.

Jim

[team-of-rivals]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

I don't think the flip looks right for two reasons:

1- the word "topps" in 1952 topps doesn't line up over the name like Matt's card. All other examples i've looked at on VCP and ebay line up like Matt's card.

2- i always scan the bar code on cards that I have questions about. Take a bar code scanner app and scan Matt's card. You'll get a reading back that matches his cert#. Scan the other card and you get a string of numbers that don't match.

I don't think it's real.

Jim

+1

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ksquared

I don't think the flip looks right for two reasons:

1- the word "topps" in 1952 topps doesn't line up over the name like Matt's card. All other examples i've looked at on VCP and ebay line up like Matt's card.

2- i always scan the bar code on cards that I have questions about. Take a bar code scanner app and scan Matt's card. You'll get a reading back that matches his cert#. Scan the other card and you get a string of numbers that don't match.

I don't think it's real.

Jim

What happens if you scan the card in his first auction?

[Ksquared]

that flip looks better to me when I look at the font and lettering and spacing. But when I scan the bar code, i don't get a match. I scanned it a few times but didn't get a match.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by calvindog

That card is a 4 -- and a pretty damn spectacular SGC 5.5 just sold for 29 and change in Goodwin. Maybe one doesn't have to use his balls but just his brain to get such a card for a good price?

That SGC 5.5 is nowhere near as nicely centered as this fake 4. And PSA slabs sell for more. When the next PSA 4 centered like this fake one surfaces, you bid under 20k and tell me if you win it. You won't. All the brains in the world won't create a reality where a centered PSA 4 with clean surface sells for 17k. I'd bid 20 myself.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by MattyC

That SGC 5.5 is nowhere near as nicely centered as this fake 4. And PSA slabs sell for more. When the next PSA 4 centered like this fake one surfaces, you bid under 20k and tell me if you win it. You won't. All the brains in the world won't create a reality where a centered PSA 4 with clean surface sells for 17k. I'd bid 20 myself.

Did you not see the corners on the SGC 5.5? They're sharp, not mushy. That's why the card is a 5.5 and not a 4.

As for your comment that you'll be "bidding hard" on the next centered 4, trust me, everyone on the board knows.

[MattyC]

Calvin-- if you like a sharp corner over centering, hey, to each his own. But there's a group of collectors who place an enormous premium of centering, especially for the 311. Sometimes I wish I wasn't one of them. But I love the rare dead centered card that is usually OC, and will happily collect as many as I can. It's no different than a group of guys who love 1975 mini commons and bid some up to 1k in heated competition. It's a small subset but they are passionate and active, and there's nothin wrong with that.

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Did you not see the corners on the SGC 5.5? They're sharp, not mushy. That's why the card is a 5.5 and not a 4.

Originally Posted by MattyC

-- if you like a sharp corner over centering, hey, to each his own. But there's a group of collectors who place an enormous premium of centering, especially for the 311

I naturally lean corners/image over centering (been that way for 20+ years and feel no urge to change)... but in general to me- cards, sets, different images and examples are way too varied to lock into any one or even two pre-established traits before seeing them. I always thought I was weird when I had trouble giving simple answers to the "what's your type?" question about girls. Then as I got older I realized that until I had met and talked to each one, it didn't matter what color her hair or eyes were if all the individual pieces fit together well. Often times you surprise yourself and that can be the most fun! This is exactly how I feel about cards, and several strong traits can almost always outweigh one negative IMO (key being my "O", so not trying to sway anyone). Put more simply- if it looks good to me when I see it, I like it.

From what I read, my version of "eye appeal" may not align with the majority here (maybe a good poll question?), and my OC cards may be dinged if I were to auction them off.. but I like them and I'm not planning to sell them. Here's a few favs...