Just sad. No, not sad. Pathetic.

[japhi]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It typically sells for $200 because it's shilled every time. Ever think that maybe your valuations are skewered because of fraud? As for a solution to get fair market value, the crooked ebay sellers with the miraculously fortuitous under bidders who never win an auction but whose bids are 95% with the sellers need to be removed. I've represented some eBay sellers who have been kicked off despite high sales. It does happen.

The cards I follow seem to always find the market range, and I don't believe every auction is shilled. Here is a card I'm following/chasing, a c55 Vezina:

3/2/14 eBay Listing | Image rcdevil s***s Best Offer $5,200.00
6/12/13 eBay Image prewarcardcollector l***v 35 $4,901.00
1/31/12 eBay Image exchefy1 t***i Best Offer $7,000.00
1/27/12 Mile High Image 12 $5,483.52
5/2/10 REA Image 21 $5,287.50
10/14/07 eBay Image jtn2000 gomaz 24 $5,801.00
8/31/07 Mastro 29 $5,251.20

There is a pretty defined market value for this card; BIN or Auction, Ebay or AH, this is a $5200 card. Did shilling set an inflated price? Possibly, but today I'm going to have to pop around 5200 bucks to buy this card, shill or no shill.

We are in complete agreement that bid retractors are losers and Ebay should manage to it. I spend a shit ton on Ebay and never have retracted a bid, and have only returned 1 card in the last 5 years.

[buymycards]

Here is another view of how prices may be affected by bidders. (I think this was discussed in a thread several years ago.) Let's say that I paid $5k for a certain card in a certain grade and the VCP average supports that price. Now I see a similar card on ebay and it is a few hours from closing and the price is $2k. So, I am thinking, I can't let this card go for $2k because that will bring the VCP average down and my card will be "worth" less, so I keep bidding it up to protect the value of my original card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Here is another view of how prices may be affected by bidders. (I think this was discussed in a thread several years ago.) Let's say that I paid $5k for a certain card in a certain grade and the VCP average supports that price. Now I see a similar card on ebay and it is a few hours from closing and the price is $2k. So, I am thinking, I can't let this card go for $2k because that will bring the VCP average down and my card will be "worth" less, so I keep bidding it up to protect the value of my original card.

I understand what you're saying, but it's just hard to imagine someone doing that. Let's say when you paid $5K for that card, you were in a bidding war with one other bidder and it drive the price to $5K, but you won the card. Now another card of the same kind and grade is on eBay with a high bid of $2K. Well, this time there is no bidding war to drive the price up. I can't see you bidding on the card at that point, just to keep the VCP average up. What if you ended up winning the card for say $2200 because nobody outbid you? Now you have two cards, one you paid $5K for, the other you paid $2200 for, and it still lowers the VCP average to $3600.

I just can't see someone throwing up a bid on a card to keep the VCP price up knowing that they could possibly "win" the card.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I understand what you're saying, but it's just hard to imagine someone doing that. Let's say when you paid $5K for that card, you were in a bidding war with one other bidder and it drive the price to $5K, but you won the card. Now another card of the same kind and grade is on eBay with a high bid of $2K. Well, this time there is no bidding war to drive the price up. I can't see you bidding on the card at that point, just to keep the VCP average up. What if you ended up winning the card for say $2200 because nobody outbid you? Now you have two cards, one you paid $5K for, the other you paid $2200 for, and it still lowers the VCP average to $3600.

I just can't see someone throwing up a bid on a card to keep the VCP price up knowing that they could possibly "win" the card.

This has been discussed at some point...I think you'd be surprised how many people "bid up" cards they perceive as bargains as compared to prior sales prices...so as to "protect" their investment...with no intention of actually trying to win said card.

Sure this can backfire...but with tougher cards...this occurs all of the time.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I just can't see someone throwing up a bid on a card to keep the VCP price up knowing that they could possibly "win" the card.

Happens all the time. And as stated above, sometimes a genuine market value for a card is arrived at after the card is sold multiple times with shill bidding kicking the price up higher than it should be in the first place. After a while, the market assumes that is what the card is worth based on false data.

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I understand what you're saying, but it's just hard to imagine someone doing that. Let's say when you paid $5K for that card, you were in a bidding war with one other bidder and it drive the price to $5K, but you won the card. Now another card of the same kind and grade is on eBay with a high bid of $2K. Well, this time there is no bidding war to drive the price up. I can't see you bidding on the card at that point, just to keep the VCP average up. What if you ended up winning the card for say $2200 because nobody outbid you? Now you have two cards, one you paid $5K for, the other you paid $2200 for, and it still lowers the VCP average to $3600.

I just can't see someone throwing up a bid on a card to keep the VCP price up knowing that they could possibly "win" the card.

a similar rare card doesn't have to owned to be bid up obviously.
If I saw a card I valued at 5k by Rick & VCP & I could get it for 3k and offer it for 4 and feel like I was giving someone a better deal than previous prices I would consider it. Clearly I am not alone in that or I would win more of those cards at 40% below VCP. Maybe I'm shill & I didn't even know it