Bob Feller - Is he a top tier Hall of Famer?

[slipk1068]

Can't argue with putting him on the list. I just consider him a half a step below. To me elite means:
Cobb
Speaker
Wagner
Lajoie
Johnson
Mathewson
Alexander
Hornsby
Ruth
Foxx
Williams

Add Feller and you also must consider Spahn, Carlton, and Seaver. Maybe Dizzy Dean? and what about Willie Mays. All a half a step below my elite list except maybe Willie Mays.

[DaveW]

"Add Feller and you also must consider Spahn, Carlton, and Seaver. Maybe Dizzy Dean? and what about Willie Mays. All a half a step below my elite list except maybe Willie Mays."

The OP did say pre-war, so you can't really include these guys, except Dean.

[Runscott]

Absolutely. Right behind Phil Niekro and Don Sutton in my HOF team 5-man starting rotation.

That was sarcasm - Feller is definitely top-tier

[wolf441]

Absolutely top tier in my book, but I'm very partial to the guys that served our country in WWII.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Absolutely. Right behind Phil Niekro and Don Sutton in my HOF team 5-man starting rotation.

That was sarcasm - Feller is definitely top-tier

Sarcasm? Meaning Seaver, Sphan and Carlton are right up there with Neikro and Sutton in your 5 man rotation? Maybe I read this response wrong too.

[sniffy5]

I think, rightfully so, many of us quickly assign automatic top-tier status to the early 19th century greats of the game. We love their cards, collect them ravenously, and they were great players. And there are no "but"s about to follow. I think we are somewhat reluctant to grant absolute icon status to a player we have seen play, or played post '40's. DiMaggio and a few others are exceptions of course. Mantle was great, but K'd constantly. Held that record til Reggie came along. Can a top tier player really be the guy who struck out more than anyone? Or just about anyone? I think there is Hall of Fame A, and it is quite small, and Hall of Fame B, and it is very varied and fine the way it is, but has players that don't belong in A. Clearly don't belong.

I think most of the early players thought of as top tier would be somewhat "era proof," meaning they would excel similarly today. I think one player that is completely era-proof is Pete Rose. And I'm not from Cincy and don't spend a second caring if he gets into the Hall. And we all saw him play, and I think he gets 4000+ hits if he's born in 1875 or 1985. Sorry for the digression....

[irishdenny]

I would at least Add:

"BiG Ed" Walsh ~ Lowest ERA of All Time!
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Sandy Koufax

To All of the Above Mention'd... I'm assuming that the Top Tier is at least 50 Players!?

Feller is a Shoe iN!!! imho, "If You were the BEST iN the World for 5 Years... Then You are Top Tier!

[pclpads]

Perhaps the naysayers on the poll and posters are influenced by BF's prevalence on the auto circuit. He was likely signing with the last breath he drew. As a result, he loses some uniqueness and his greatness is diminished making him falsely appear to be a lesser tier player. He began his career in the late '30's, when fellow HOFer's Hubbell, Dean, Gomez and Ruffing were ending theirs. As a pre-war hurler, he was more dominant than they and more deserving of a top tier grade. And you can't compare BF to Matty, Young, Alexander, Johnson, Plank or Brown. All were similarly dominant in their time, but it was a different game, different era. Like comparing Pujols to Ruth.

[TUM301]

Feller is a top tier HOF`er without a doubt. The fact that he unselfishly served his country for 4 years and was trully one of the great ambassadors for the game just puts the icing on the HOF cake for me. Don`t think you`d have to take any player off your present list but "Bullett " Bob was extra special for a long time during baseball`s golden age. My 2 cents....

[Harliduck]

I would 100% vote Feller as a Top Tier HOFer...BUT...


...I have a hard time stomaching him being talked about as "such a great person" bs...in 1983 he came to my home town card shop for an autograph signing. I was 13 at the time. I was waiting in a small line of about 12 people to get his autograph...all he did was bitch that not enough people were there, he kept letting the small group know he was the greatest of all time, ripped on any of the players of that days game, yelled at the shop keep constantly with his petty demands, swore in front of the kids several times, wouldn't shut up (total windbag), and hit on my mom in front of my dad! As I walked out of the shop I threw his autograph in the garbage. I am UNDERSTATING the visit...and my dad almost decked him. We came back about a week later, and the shop owner couldn't apologize enough and said he was completely awful the entire time. Total douchebag.

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by DaveW

"Add Feller and you also must consider Spahn, Carlton, and Seaver. Maybe Dizzy Dean? and what about Willie Mays. All a half a step below my elite list except maybe Willie Mays."

The OP did say pre-war, so you can't really include these guys, except Dean.

oops i missed that. my mistake thanks.

[bosoxfan]

Originally Posted by slipk1068

Can't argue with putting him on the list. I just consider him a half a step below. To me elite means:
Cobb
Speaker
Wagner
Lajoie
Johnson
Mathewson
Alexander
Hornsby
Ruth
Foxx
Williams

Add Feller and you also must consider Spahn, Carlton, and Seaver. Maybe Dizzy Dean? and what about Willie Mays. All a half a step below my elite list except maybe Willie Mays.

I think we're talking pre war but, Seaver and Carlton a half step below? WOW

[Hankphenom]

All depends on the definition of top-tier. Because of the prime years lost to war service and his overall profile of dominance in his time, he's in my top 15 all-time great pitchers, maybe closer to 10 than 15. That makes him a top 50 player, IMO, and that's a truly elite group.

As for his personality, I had several "encounters" with Feller, and you can put me down in the not-a-fan camp. I do like the fact, however, that in every interview I've seen where he was asked whether he thought he was the fastest pitcher ever, he says without hesitation that he thought that Walter Johnson had to be the fastest ever, and also the greatest pitcher ever. You have to feel a little sorry for the guy coming into the league just a few years after Johnson left, and having everyone who had seen both of them say how great he was but that he wasn't as fast, or as good, as Johnson. It had to bother the heck out of him.

And I agree with those who find no excuse for his grumpiness. The guy had a fabulous life, and even if he hadn't, it's no more trouble to be kind than to be unpleasant. My personal observation from seeing him up close several times is that he had a huge ego, and I think being able to be gruff and cranky and getting away with it was his way of proving what a great man he was.

[the 'stache]

Originally Posted by bosoxfan

I think we're talking pre war but, Seaver and Carlton a half step below? WOW

Ya, and what about Sandy Koufax and Bob Gibson? Koufax, in his prime was, in my opinion, the second best pitcher ever behind Johnson.

The last five seasons of his career, Koufax was 111-34 (.766 win percentage!) with a 1.95 ERA, 33 shutouts, 1,444 Ks vs 316 BB in 1,377 IP. He allowed 6.3 hits per nine innings, and compiled a 0.926 WHIP. That's downright obscene for a modern pitcher, regardless of how high the mound was.

I'd also add Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux to that top tier of Hall of Famers (once Pedro gets in, obviously).

[the 'stache]

Jesus, Pedro's 7 year peak from 1997 to 2003: 118-36 (again, .766 WP), with a 2.20 ERA, 11 shutouts, 1,761 Ks vs 315 BB in 1,408 IP. He allowed 6.4 hits per 9 IP, and compiled a 0.940 WHIP.

He won 3 Cy Young Awards (he also finished second in the Cy Young twice, and third once. He wasn't in the top 3 only once, because he only started 18 games in 2001), led his league in ERA five times (once in the NL when he played for Montreal, the others in Boston).

Greg Maddux, in his 7 year peak from 1992 to 1998: 127-53 (.706 WP), with a 2.15 ERA, 19 shutouts, 1,286 Ks vs 269 BB in 1,675 IP. He allowed 7.3 hits per 9 IP, and compiled a 0.968 WHIP. That 1.4 BB per 9 IP is just too good.

And Greg won 4 consecutive Cy Youngs.

Can Greg Maddux be a top tier Hall of Famer now? 355-27 career (.610 WP), 3.16 ERA, 35 shutouts, 3,371 Ks against 999 BB in 5,008.1 IP.

4 Cy Youngs, 18 Gold Glove Awards. He's eighth all-time in wins. He never struck out 200 hitters in a season. He did it with control.

Please tell me these guys are top tier.