T209 Website launch

[E93]

Mike,
Nice job. Thank you.
JimB

[Michael Peich]

Thanks to all of you for the many nice comments on the T209 website. I hope to have the hand-held/tablet formatting issue resolved by tomorrow.

Frank—Thank you for your very interesting observation. Like Pope the cards of Fullenwider, Hoffman and Stubbe all have a similar T206-inspired building in the background. Their photos were probably purchased from a photographer who sold images of players to cigarette manufacturers. This is most evident in the Series Two photos. Further, if you look again at the two panels of player images, one of them contains Al Orth in his T206 pose. That is part of the reason I think the panels were probably (with a nod to Scott) proof sheets. An individual manufacturer had many choices from which to choose a photo to be used on a card.

Was Pope produced by ATC? I don't think so for at least two reasons. Contentnea was an extremely small, regional cigarette manufacturer. If the cards had been produced by ATC they would most likely have been printed by American Lithographic Company in Philadelphia which, like Buck Duke and ATC, had a monopoly on card production. Because of their size, I doubt Erwin-Nadal, owners of Contentnea, used American Litho. Besides, I wouldn’t be surprised if ATC didn’t own the rights to “doohickeys” and their use!!

More importantly, had ATC or Am. Litho produced the cards, they would not have overlooked printing the tax stamp information required for the backs of all tobacco cards. As Tim and I pointed out in our essay on Series One, the lack of the tax stamp suggests a hastily produced set of a modest sixteen cards, probably printed locally.

Thanks again for looking!

Cheers,
Mike

[wonkaticket]

After viewing the site for the past day or so I'd like to say its just full of images and info. I have really enjoyed this site if you haven't checked it out you should. Once again solid job Mike.

Cheers,

John

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Michael Peich

...
More importantly, had ATC or Am. Litho produced the cards, they would not have overlooked printing the tax stamp information required for the backs of all tobacco cards. As Tim and I pointed out in our essay on Series One, the lack of the tax stamp suggests a hastily produced set of a modest sixteen cards, probably printed locally.

Thanks again for looking!

Cheers,
Mike

Hey Mike
With this comment are you referring to the fact that the series one didn't have printed tobacco stamp information? Some of the cards were hand stamped, as we all know. Great site and thanks again..

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Michael Peich

Frank—Thank you for your very interesting observation. Like Pope the cards of Fullenwider, Hoffman and Stubbe all have a similar T206-inspired building in the background. Their photos were probably purchased from a photographer who sold images of players to cigarette manufacturers. This is most evident in the Series Two photos. Further, if you look again at the two panels of player images, one of them contains Al Orth in his T206 pose. That is part of the reason I think the panels were probably (with a nod to Scott) proof sheets. An individual manufacturer had many choices from which to choose a photo to be used on a card.

Was Pope produced by ATC? I don't think so for at least two reasons. Contentnea was an extremely small, regional cigarette manufacturer. If the cards had been produced by ATC they would most likely have been printed by American Lithographic Company in Philadelphia which, like Buck Duke and ATC, had a monopoly on card production. Because of their size, I doubt Erwin-Nadal, owners of Contentnea, used American Litho. Besides, I wouldn’t be surprised if ATC didn’t own the rights to “doohickeys” and their use!!

More importantly, had ATC or Am. Litho produced the cards, they would not have overlooked printing the tax stamp information required for the backs of all tobacco cards. As Tim and I pointed out in our essay on Series One, the lack of the tax stamp suggests a hastily produced set of a modest sixteen cards, probably printed locally.

Thanks again for looking!

Cheers,
Mike

I really enjoy the site.

The wordpress "follow T209" ad that doesn't give any option besides following the new posts by giving an email address is both new today and really annoying. But that's probably a wordpress thing rather than yours.


The panels are interesting in a lot of ways.

I think they may be samples of what the cards would look like in black and white. They aren't actual photos, but aren't exactly proofs either. I think that maybe they were made from the original art - photos with altered backgrounds- as a specific monochrome image.

A couple points to the above.
ALC was in NYC

They were also an very large printing business. They were almost certainly not in an exclusive arrangement with ATC. But they might have turned down a small job from a competitor to a very large customer. That's assuming contentnea could be considered a competitor in any real sense.

The factory number wouldn't have been ALCs responsibility. They would have printed what the customer asked for and approved. If that number was left off they might have mentioned it but unless they were asked to add it they wouldn't.

But I also don't think ALC produced the cards.

While there's some art that's similar for the type 1s, the overall production is quite different than the ALC cards. The number of colors used and the way of screening the colors used is very different.

The similar art is an odd mix as well. The Fullenwider and Pope are very close to the T206 art. But the Hoffman is a bit awkward looking. The T206 background buildings seem deliberately blurred giving them a more mythical feel but the one on Hoffman is a very crisp portrayal that's nice but for me doesn't work as well. The one on Stubbe I think actually works better than most of the T206 buildings despite being a crisper image.

All that makes me think the panels are done from either cards, or the original art to show what a simple change to black and white would look like. And I guess they were abandoned in favor of just using a finer screen to produce unmodified images from photos.
(An expensive experiment for someone! Generating the halftones was a big part of the expense. )

It all makes me appreciate my two type IIs a lot more. (Gastmeyer and Kite, both pretty beat)

Steve B

[steve B]

Is it possible they originally intended the cards to be given out rather than as inserts? That might not have required the factory info, but would have had its own problems -like merchants not giving them out or letting people choose the one they wanted. That would have made them less effective as a promotion.

Steve B

[wolf441]

Really great site Mike!!! Thanks for the research, another great bookmark to add!!

[Michael Peich]

Steve—Thank you for the thoughtful post. I don’t know what I was thinking when I wrote that ALC was in Philadelphia. A “duh” moment. Mea culpa.

I agree with you that the cards were not produced by ALC. Despite being color lithos, they are a bit crudely executed by comparison with T206. I still think photographic jobbers had samples of player poses for customers to choose, and that’s what Erwin-Nadal went with, and then used their own printer to produce the cards.

I do think the cards were inserts since it was a successful business model for ATC, and Contentnea was trying to attract customers. Keep in mind that Erwin-Nadal had local competition (Wilson, NC) from Carolina Brights who were publically owned by Wells-Whitehead, but secretly owned by ATC. Erwin-Nadal would have known the ATC business model regarding cards and probably emulated it. And, as Scott Reader’s research establishes, the cards contained in brands owned by ATC created a collecting frenzy, one that E-W tried to capitalize upon.

Leon—Of course there are examples of hand-stamped backs, and thanks for displaying yours. In the essay on Series One, Tim and I hypothesize that Erwin-Nadal was working hastily to get the cards out. When they discovered the tax stamp omission, E-W quickly started stamping by hand. Fortunately for you, and others of us, it created an interesting back variation. I love the hand-stamped backs and am pleased to have a number of them in my Series One set.

Thank you for your interest and responses!

Cheers,
Mike

[sreader3]

Great site, Mike. Thank you for the effort. Scot Reader