Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[freakhappy]

I appreciate you enthusiasm, David...but your car analogy doesn't necessarily fit into this scenario. If we were solely debating altering cards in such a way like recoloring, trimming, rebuilding, then your analogy would be perfect.

There is a lot that still needs to be proved in the card soaking business before I totally think it's ok to do so, but as of right now, I have no proof that says it has bad long term effects, so I'm not against it per se.

IMO if your '57 Chevy was sitting in the garage for several years and accumulated dirt and grime...why not get it cleaned and looking better? These cards imo are just getting cleaned after so many years of collecting dirt and grime. I know it improves it's value most of the time because it is supposed to...you're cleaning the grime off of it! Will your '57 Chevy look better after the bath? Well, we both know the answer to that one...and the same applies to the cards.

Like I stated before, I'm not totally on board because who knows of the long term effects, but I'm not sure how one could be so one sided when debating this topic.

I wonder how many people would be totally shocked at how many of these cards have actually been soaked in water or cleaned with chemicals? I'm willing to bet over half of the t206's in existence have been soaked one way or another.


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[frankbmd]

Up for auction today are four pristine examples from motoring history preserved with provenance from their original owners. The cars have never been altered in any way and I guarantee that or a full refund with be provided. Some might suggest that these beauties have been neglected, but I can assure you they have only been well loved since leaving the showroom floor. The Jeep in the lower right corner shows evidence of possibly being soaked. We believe in full disclosure in all our advertising. The cars you see are the cars you will get. This lot will not last long at $40,000 with free shipping. The first PM or email saying "I'll take 'em" wins. No fee PP preferred.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Up for auction today are four pristine examples from motoring history preserved with provenance from their original owners. The cars have never been altered in any way and I guarantee that or a full refund with be provided. Some might suggest that these beauties have been neglected, but I can assure you they have only been well loved since leaving the showroom floor. The Jeep in the lower right corner shows evidence of possibly being soaked. We believe in full disclosure in all our advertising. The cars you see are the cars you will get. This lot will not last long at $40,000 with free shipping. The first PM or email saying "I'll take 'em" wins. No fee PP preferred.

Funny! Your point is spot on as well!

[Runscott]

We seem to have an emerging group of 'all or nothing' collectors;i.e-either you can't touch a card (no, if you spill oatmeal on it at breakfast, it has to be allowed to harden and can never be removed), or you can restore them completely - just like a painting - and in fact, you SHOULD, just like a painting.

The 'everything is black and white' approach seems kinda dumb to me - just sayin.

[Kenny Cole]

Originally Posted by Runscott

We seem to have an emerging group of 'all or nothing' collectors;i.e-either you can't touch a card (no, if you spill oatmeal on it at breakfast, it has to be allowed to harden and can never be removed), or you can restore them completely - just like a painting - and in fact, you SHOULD, just like a painting.

The 'everything is black and white' approach seems kinda dumb to me - just sayin.

I would imagine that's because everything is a chemical or nothing is. Interesting, but now tiresome, debate.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Up for auction today are four pristine examples from motoring history preserved with provenance from their original owners. The cars have never been altered in any way and I guarantee that or a full refund with be provided. Some might suggest that these beauties have been neglected, but I can assure you they have only been well loved since leaving the showroom floor. The Jeep in the lower right corner shows evidence of possibly being soaked. We believe in full disclosure in all our advertising. The cars you see are the cars you will get. This lot will not last long at $40,000 with free shipping. The first PM or email saying "I'll take 'em" wins. No fee PP preferred.

Does Frank's Fine Auctions accept consignments? I have an old lever action Winchester that I would like to sell. It's pre-'64, so it's highly collectible. The gun is in pristine condition having never been cleaned. That's right, no solvent has ever touched the bore. Lots of rust and corrosion included to lend credibility.

[Leon]

I will sum up this thread from my view:

1.Most board members don't mind soaking a card or cleaning it with water.
2.Most board members mind it being cleaned with anything else.
3.Almost all board members don't approve of creases or wrinkles being removed.

As for me.....still on the fence but would generally fall into the categories above.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

I will sum up this thread from my view:

1.Most board members don't mind soaking a card or cleaning it with water.
2.Most board members mind it being cleaned with anything else.
3.Almost all board members don't approve of creases or wrinkles being removed.

As for me.....still on the fence but would generally fall into the categories above.

4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

4. The people who think it's OK for the most part won't disclose it.

For the record, and let me be very clear, if I soaked a card and honestly remembered it at the time of sale, I would certainly disclose it. My sales speak for themselves...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...+topps+schmidt

However, I don't have a problem with other sellers not disclosing it. I guess the reason for that is because I see nothing wrong with soaking. So, I'm not saying it's right for me, I'm just saying I don't have a problem with other sellers not doing it. In other words, if I were buying a card, it would make absolutely no difference to me at all fi the seller told me that it was previously soaked or not. It would not influence my buying decision.

[Edward]

If and when pop reports become exceedingly top heavy, and those who otherwise wouldn't succumb (kind of like steroids), how long before the whole house of cards collapses?

[wonkaticket]

Or a simple thought if you soak a card off a page with something you would let your kids drink. Or if you are removing stains with something you would rush your kid to the emergency room for drinking. Which do you think raises more eyebrows among collectors.

Nobody is arguing lots of cards got soaked off pages over the years from albums etc. with water. I think most are saying what Ryan and I have said water doesn't remove major stains and whiten cards to supernatural states.....that's using something else.

Having healthy breakfast is good for athletes might even give them an edge, however having a breakfast and a shot of steroids isn't the same thing IMO. I know....I know as long as you can't tell and enjoy the game what does it matter that the players are juiced as long as you can't tell.

John

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Does Frank's Fine Auctions accept consignments? I have an old lever action Winchester that I would like to sell. It's pre-'64, so it's highly collectible. The gun is in pristine condition having never been cleaned. That's right, no solvent has ever touched the bore. Lots of rust and corrosion included to lend credibility.

FFA would be happy to accept your consignment, David, and would proudly offer you the highest consignment rate in the industry. Remember our guarantee that if you can find a higher consignment rate anywhere, we will match it.

[barrysloate]

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.

[Republicaninmass]

The first rule about the process...


...you dont talk about the process

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on tv.

Many thousands of the cards that survive today owe their existence to the fact they were glued in. Otherwise, most of them would have been thrown out years ago.

Over time, so many have been soaked out of albums that it would be impossible to keep track of them. They are dispersed all over the hobby, and for the most part, the fact they were soaked is lost to history. It's silly to worry about it because they are everywhere. Many people have these cards in their collections and have no idea of it. Soaking seems to me a really minor process that should have no bearing on a card at all.

exactly !!

[ALR-bishop]

I have been collecting cards since 1957. I have never soaked or cleaned a card myself. I would be terrible at either. I have no idea if I have soaked or cleaned cards in my collection....and I do not care. It is just a hobby for fun to me. If it was an investment or business for me, I guess I would worry about this stuff. Glad it is not. When I am dead someone else can keep, sell, or burn my cards, I do not care. I just enjoy them now.

[D.P.Johnson]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, families often spent a quiet evening together gluing cards and die cuts into scrapbooks. It's what people did when there was nothing good to watch on TV.

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

Dan, he was joking. I thought it was pretty funny.

[ElCabron]

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Televisions weren't mass produced until the 1930's. Most American families didn't have a television until the 1950's.

This is awesome.