Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

John,
I do not like nor do I buy into the "oh water.... its so gentle... I think i'll just toss a couple of cards in a bowl... because, well just because". If you think people remove or restore or clean-up cards to the point that one barely can tell the difference before & after the water soak your just fooling yourself. We have seen examples here on the board where people made huge differences in the before & after with just water. And of course money is never the motivator when water is used right?

Shawn, it's not "just because" - it's to remove stuff as unobtrusively as possible. And in general, water does not usually have a huge effect on 'before and after', unless the card had a lot of water-soluble glued on paper on the back. People who have soaked with water understand this and have explained it.

The only reason you and others don't seem to understand it, is possibly because you've never done it. Fair enough, but I can promise you - I'm not lying when I tell you what soaking can or cannot do, based on my own personal experience.

I cannot tell you about chemicals, and because of this, I think their use should be disclosed, especially for examples like the Plank - if for no other reason, than because when the buyer of the cleaned card attempts to trade or re-sell, he's likely to have to answer questions if he encounters someone with 'before' pics, and he was unaware that a cleaning had taken place. The impact on value could be very substantial.

[smokelessjoe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Shawn, it's not "just because" - it's to remove stuff as unobtrusively as possible. And in general, water does not usually have a huge effect on 'before and after', unless the card had a lot of water-soluble glued on paper on the back. People who have soaked with water understand this and have explained it.

The only reason you and others don't seem to understand it, is possibly because you've never done it. Fair enough, but I can promise you - I'm not lying when I tell you what soaking can or cannot do, based on my own personal experience.

I cannot tell you about chemicals, and because of this, I think their use should be disclosed, especially for examples like the Plank - if for no other reason, than because when the buyer of the cleaned card attempts to trade or re-sell, he's likely to have to answer questions if he encounters someone with 'before' pics, and he was unaware that a cleaning had taken place. The impact on value could be very substantial.

Hi Scott,

Hope you are doing well.

I know its not "just because", I was being facetious in making that comment. Your point is partly what I was trying to say - that is people are not just throwing cards into a bowl "just because" but are actually trying to improve the card / photo whichever... But I do not buy that using water is just this hapless innocent thing with no other motive. The use of water can greatly increase the value of a card or a photo. I have seen it before my very eyes on this forum. And I think you know this is possible as well.

On a side note: your response to somebody else post about the effects a "slab" can have on a card does concern me... I had not thought about it... I used to run track - I started when I was 5 years old - back then you would get ribbons and medals for 1st - 6th place - The Medals would come in these little plastic cases with a piece of black foam to cushion the medal. I collected things even at that early of an age of which included coins - Well I had what I thought was a great Idea and used those little plastic cases to store my prized coins in - Over the years I would randomly admire them (still in the case) until flash forward 35 years - I decide to take the coins out so I could look at the other side - low & behold the coins are stuck to the foam and have actually had a chemical reaction (to most but not all) that has eaten away at the metal!!!! Here I thought I was such a smart kid and now the coins are ruined....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

Hi Scott,

On a side note: your response to somebody else post about the effects a "slab" can have on a card does concern me... I had not thought about it... I used to run track - I started when I was 5 years old - back then you would get ribbons and medals for 1st - 6th place - The Medals would come in these little plastic cases with a piece of black foam to cushion the medal. I collected things even at that early of an age of which included coins - Well I had what I thought was a great Idea and used those little plastic cases to store my prized coins in - Over the years I would randomly admire them (still in the case) until flash forward 35 years - I decide to take the coins out so I could look at the other side - low & behold the coins are stuck to the foam and have actually had a chemical reaction (to most but not all) that has eaten away at the metal!!!! Here I thought I was such a smart kid and now the coins are ruined....

I don't think that was me. I'm not so concerned about the effects of the plastic on the cards, but they do smell plasticey when removed, and I would rather they smelled like old cardboard. Regarding coins - after a few years, I often see grayish spots on proof coins. That was partly the reason that I stopped collecting them - including those flimsy thin plastic enclosures the U.S. mint used. I still have all of them, so I can show some ugly proof scans if anyone is interested.

Also, I always seem to miss those facetious remarks - I can dish them out, but I can't understand them when others do it